Moral Equivalence attempt II - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-22-2004, 01:32 PM   #1
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 09:23 PM
Moral Equivalence attempt II

The following quote is paraphrased from one Sheikh Abdur-Rahman al-Sudais a "moderate" Cleric from Saudi Arabia who recently visited the UK, and got rave reviews from the BBC I might add. What I have done is take his words and change the subject of his sermon from Jew to Muslim. As you should see it reads as a piece of violent hate literature.

Quote:
The problem facing the world isn't with America or religious extremists and terrorists it is Islam itself and Muslims broadly. It's very existence creates violence all over the world and it seeks to exterminate all that do not fall to it. Muslims rule the world with oil and use it to control Europe and America who give vast quantities of aid to mulsim countries which is used to spill Christian, Hindu and Jewish blood the world over.
The point of this excercise is to show how when we condemn the slightest piece of criticism of Islam or Islamic society as Rascist or Islamaphobic we turn a blind eye to the real rascism out there. It is preached all over the Islamic world and its target is primarily the Jews. This is a form of open propaganda that Herr Goebbels himself would be proud of, people can preach the destruction of the Jews on international news programs the world over and have it beamed into peoples houses without the slightest piece of criticism from our political leaders.

This violence manifests itself in the world as terrorism against Israel and violence against Jews. They incite violence (which is a crime isn't it?) and we are unable to take proper action, this problem is even worse today because the mass media allows them to overrun everybody else and any Muslim who dissents from this view is percecuted. This selective blindness and double standard is dangerous.

Antisemitism is a growing phenomena and it is beginning to make its mark on global politics. We live in very dire times as Islamic countries strive to gain nuclear weapons and Islamist terrorists strike at the west they have a clear goal in mind and we are not heeding their message, We are on the verge of having these hate filled men in possesion of the tools to finish what the Nazi's started and wipe the Jewish Nation from the face of the earth (I speak of course of Iran who is quite close to obtaining Nuclear Weapons). 60 years and the mistakes of the past are being forgotten and we will not face up to it. These are perilous times and we must not forget the lessons of history, look at who these Islamists (I went over this Islamist defintion before, if some people still don't get the distinction start a thread) really are and what their goals for future are, if we do I am certain we can find the strength to defeat this evil and make the world safe for diversity.

My question is this, is holding Muslims to different standards of linguistic conduct tantamount to racism and is it allright to turn a blind eye to injustice because it is not considered to be a bad thing.
__________________

__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 06-22-2004, 01:47 PM   #2
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
DrTeeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Q continuum
Posts: 4,770
Local Time: 12:23 PM

I see what you are trying to say and I share your concern about growing anti-semitism in the West. However what I don't get is how this quoted part somehow proves that we use different standards. Oh, and who is this 'we' you're talking about?

I feel the original quote would have been more powerfull but unfortunately you felt the need to turn it into a bad experiment.
__________________

__________________
DrTeeth is offline  
Old 06-22-2004, 01:56 PM   #3
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 09:23 PM
I was warned about the original quote, it seems a comment about a particular type of person being like a particular type of animal did not come across quite right, read it at your peril ..

This quote should show to a degree that most of us would criticise anybody who said that about Muslims (and rightly so) but care not a jot about Muslim Holy Men inciting violence against the rest of the world and getting labled moderates and gaining legitmacy and leads me to say why we are putting up with it when so many lives are at stake, can't non-muslims call it what it really is - blatant racism - without having the label turned against them.

It is simply too dangerous to beat around the Bush, why is the international community impotent against this hateful school of thought.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 06-22-2004, 02:01 PM   #4
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 03:23 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by DrTeeth
I see what you are trying to say and I share your concern about growing anti-semitism in the West. However what I don't get is how this quoted part somehow proves that we use different standards. Oh, and who is this 'we' you're talking about?
Perhaps the difference in standards is that when Islam is cast in a negative light, we are flooded with platitudes of "not all muslims feel this way" or "the are Christian extremists".

In doing so, we skip righ over the problem that continues to grow and fester.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 06-22-2004, 02:03 PM   #5
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
DrTeeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Q continuum
Posts: 4,770
Local Time: 12:23 PM

No I meant that maybe you shouldn't have changed the word Jews to the word Muslims if you want to show the level of anti-semitism in the West (even though this guy's from Saudi Arabia).

Again, if you wanted to prove a double standard then this quote doesn't work. Unless you were hoping for double standards on this forum, in which case you should have been more subtle.
__________________
DrTeeth is offline  
Old 06-22-2004, 02:09 PM   #6
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 09:23 PM
Well heres a little piece of one of his sermons without the confusing doublespeak

Quote:
"Read history, and you will understand that the Jews of yesterday are the evil fathers of the Jews of today, who are evil offspring, infidels ... calf-worshippers, prophet-murderers, prophecy-deniers...the scum of the human race whom Allah cursed and turned into apes and pigs.... These are the Jews, a continuous lineage of meanness, cunning, obstinacy, tyranny, licentiousness, evil, and corruption...."
and BBC descibes this at the opening of the biggest Mosque in London
Quote:
"The centre was opened as Friday prayers took place, led by one of Islam's most renowned Imams, and celebrations will continue throughout the weekend"

"Worshippers had come to hear Sheikh Abdur-Rahman al-Sudais, Imam of the Ka'ba, Islam's holiest mosque in Mecca, Saudi Arabia.... With many unable to enter the new centre, some worshippers took to praying on a street behind the mosque using prayer mats and even newspapers."

"(the center)will bolster London's reputation as a vibrant and diverse international city" and has a "spirit of modesty."
How exactly is this matching up to the religion of peace line, it seems that there is a religion of peace practiced by most Muslims but it sure as hell doesn't seem to be the same as the Islam their relgious leaders follow.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 06-22-2004, 02:11 PM   #7
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 03:23 AM
I guess the double standard may apply if a non-Muslim uttered those words about Jews - they would feel the heat - and rightly so.

Here, a "renown Imam" utters the words and it is part of an opening celebration. Doesn't make sense.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 06-22-2004, 02:13 PM   #8
Blue Crack Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 17,927
Local Time: 06:23 AM
crys

No one is allowed to say anything about any Muslims no matter what they do or say or plan to do because 'they're not all like that' So the ones who are get off the hook getting covered with the same PC safety blanket, and nothing ever changes
__________________
U2Kitten is offline  
Old 06-22-2004, 02:14 PM   #9
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
DrTeeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Q continuum
Posts: 4,770
Local Time: 12:23 PM
So you feel the BBC should have reported in a different way on the opening of the Mosque? And because they didn't, you feel they turned a blind eye?
__________________
DrTeeth is offline  
Old 06-22-2004, 02:28 PM   #10
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
DrTeeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Q continuum
Posts: 4,770
Local Time: 12:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten
No one is allowed to say anything about any Muslims no matter what they do or say or plan to do because 'they're not all like that' So the ones who are get off the hook getting covered with the same PC safety blanket, and nothing ever changes
Everybody has the right (maybe even the duty) to speak out against these speeches or ideas but you just have to choose your words carefully. Far to often have I personally been accused of being a member of the PC-police when all I did was telling people they shouldn't lump every Muslim (or Jew or whatever) together. Is that too much to ask? Seriously, if you don't see that, don't be surprised if people stop taking you seriously (and by 'you' I mean 'you' in general not U2Kitten).

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Perhaps the difference in standards is that when Islam is cast in a negative light, we are flooded with platitudes of "not all muslims feel this way" or "the are Christian extremists".

In doing so, we skip righ over the problem that continues to grow and fester.
I think if we keep forgetting that "not all muslims feel this way", we have a bigger problem on our hands.
__________________
DrTeeth is offline  
Old 06-22-2004, 02:37 PM   #11
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 09:23 PM
Millions of Muslims find such speech unfair and wrong but Millions more view such rhetoric as truth.

We has a moral obligation to Muslims to tell them when it isn't right, the moral compass of a society is only as good as the sum of its people and if they truly believe this then they are putting the rest of us in danger, we must constructively criticize many elements of their religion and strongly encourage and fund moderates the world over - this is the battle for hearts and minds and we cannot win with wool over our eyes.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 06-22-2004, 03:29 PM   #12
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 03:23 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by DrTeeth
I think if we keep forgetting that "not all muslims feel this way", we have a bigger problem on our hands.
I agree we should not forget this. I think it would be difficult, however, to find a post here that states "all muslims" think a certain way.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 06-22-2004, 03:35 PM   #13
Sizzlin' Sicilian
Forum Administrator
 
Sicy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 69,297
Local Time: 03:23 AM
I believe your previous thread on this subject or similar was closed by pax and you were contacted privately and asked to familiarize yourself with the FAQs:

http://forum.interference.com/misc.p...=faq&page=5#30
__________________

__________________
Sicy is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com