Mmissing Nerve Gas, Anthraz, Nuke Bomb Parts

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Dreadsox

ONE love, blood, life
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
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Missing: four tons of nerve gas, 8.5 tons of anthrax, and assorted nuclear bomb parts
By David Usborne and Rupert Cornwell
20 December 2002


The United States pushed the world closer to armed conflict last night when Colin Powell, the Secretary of State, asserted that Iraq's declaration on its weapons capacities "totally failed" to meet the conditions laid down by the United Nations. The document, he said, was nothing more than "a catalogue of flagrant omissions and recycled information."

Speaking after the two senior UN weapons inspectors had told the Security Council there were serious "holes" in the declaration, General Powell said the shortcomings constituted a "material breach" of Baghdad's obligations ? two words that have been treated as a coded trigger for war.

But he indicated the US would not immediately unleash a military campaign. Instead, over the "coming weeks" Washington would seek to intensify UN inspections and secure interviews with Iraqi scientists outside Iraq, while enlisting as broad diplomatic support as possible for the military action that now seems inevitable.

General Powell left only the barest chink of light for Saddam Hussein to comply. The declaration had been a final opportunity to come clean over Iraq's biological, chemical and nuclear capabilities, he said, but "so far" the Iraqi leader had responded "with new lies".

Specifically, he cited major discrepancies between the former production capacity for anthrax and botulinum, two deadly biological agents, admitted by Iraq in the new document, and the findings of the previous UN inspectors after they left Iraq in late 1998. These estimated capacity to be three times larger.

Coupled with Washington's announcement of plans to send 50,000 more troops to the Gulf by mid-January, doubling its military manpower in the region, yesterday's developments in the UN only added to the impression that war is on the way, most likely in early or mid-February.

But while consensus prevailed in the Security Council that Iraq's declaration was broadly unsatisfactory, no other member was ready to back the US in declaring a new material breach. Even Britain, which has stood arm-in-arm with Washington on the issue, declined to utter the words. Ministers in London have said omissions in the text are not in themselves grounds for war. Jack Straw, the Foreign Secretary, said war was not inevitable but Iraq had pulled one "trigger" and "they now have their finger on the other trigger".

The Security Council had met to hear a preliminary assessment of the 12,000-page Iraqi report by Hans Blix, the chief UN weapons inspector, and Mohammed al-Baradei, the chief of the International Atomic Energy Agency. Both men said they would offer a more conclusive analysis of the material in the new year. They are also to give their first formal report on the progress of weapons inspections on 27 January ? cited as a possible war decision date for President Bush.

Mr Blix said: "An opportunity was missed in the declaration to give a lot of evidence. They can still provide it orally, but it would have been better if it was in the declaration."

Going further, he said: "There were a lot of open questions at the end of 1998 and these have not been answered. The absence of that evidence means one cannot have confidence that there does not remain weapons of mass destruction."

Iraq reiterated its claim that nothing had been omitted. Amir al-Saadi, a presidential adviser, told a news conference in Baghdad: "It seems they [the US and Britain] are more worried than we are about this assessment. We are not worried. It's the other side that is worried because there is nothing they can pin on us."

Mr Blix and Mr al-Baradei said Iraq had so far co-operated properly and promptly with inspectors, giving them prompt and easy access to sites. But Britain's UN ambassador, Sir Jeremy Greenstock, said it was not enough. "One hundred per cent co-operation [from Iraq] with inspectors is going to be necessary," he warned, "not on process but on the substance of what needs to be cleared up. That will be the test."
 
if the americans and britich would put 1/1000th of the same effort into creating peace as opposed to striving for war, it would be interesting to see.
 
The USA does not strive for war, it strives for security and peace. It is Saddam that strives for war and power. He is the one that is in violation of the 1991 ceacefire agreement and 16 United Nations resolutions passed under chapter 7 rules.
 
oh fuck that already, im so sick and tired of you bringing that up all the time.

if were so fucking concerned about that little detail, why arent the states pounding the shit out of israel everytime they violate every rule in the book whenever the decide to occupy more and more of palestine?!

why didnt they do anything in cyprus, huh?!

dont give me NO bullshit that the us doesnt strive for war. thats all they want, theyre begging iraq to slip up.

and the most humourous part of it all, is when rumsfeld says on tv how it makes him angry that us planes are being shot at when theyre patrolling THEIR no fly zones over SOMEONE ELSES COUNTRY.

does he, of all people, not know that the states have been bombing sites for 10 years? and they SERIOUSLY expect the iraq to sit by and take it all?! what the hell do they think?!

this is stupidity, ignorance, and hatrid all tied into one lovely comment by one of People magazines sexiest men of the year.
 
Cow,

"if were so fucking concerned about that little detail, why arent the states pounding the shit out of israel everytime they violate every rule in the book whenever the decide to occupy more and more of palestine?!"

"why didnt they do anything in cyprus, huh?!"

United Nations resolutions past in regards to Israel and Cyprus were passed under CHAPTER 6 RULES! Chapter 6 Rules do not allow the use of force to bring violators into compliance with the resolutions. The 16 UN resolutions that Iraq is in violation of were passed under CHAPTER 7 RULES of the United Nations which require, if need be, the use of force to bring about compliance with United Nations resolutions.

Iraq's violations are not little things and the reason such UN resolutions exist is because of Iraq's unlawful invasion and annexation of Kuwait, attacks on Saudi Arabia and Israel. Israel on the other hand was forced to take the West Bank, Golan, Gaza, and Sinai in 1967 to prevent the country from being overrun by Arab forces. Israel has agreed to comply with UN resolutions and will once a peace agreement is worked out that safeguards Israels security and right to exist, which until recently was not recognized by most Arab countries. The United Nations has recognized the obvious difference of both conflicts which is why resolutions of Israel have been passed under Chapter 6 resolutions while resolutions in regards to Iraq have been passed under Chapter 7 resolutions.

If all the US wanted was war, Saddam Hussain would have been dead long ago.

The pilots who patrol the UNITED NATIONS approved no fly zones(which prevent Iraq from using aircraft to slaughter shia's in the south and Kurds in the North) only fire if they are first fired upon. The Pilots only fire back at Air Defense sites that are engaged in attempting to destroy coalition aircraft flying a UN approved mission.
 
Cow of the Seas said:
oh fuck that already, im so sick and tired of you bringing that up all the time.

if were so fucking concerned about that little detail, why arent the states pounding the shit out of israel everytime they violate every rule in the book whenever the decide to occupy more and more of palestine?!

why didnt they do anything in cyprus, huh?!

dont give me NO bullshit that the us doesnt strive for war. thats all they want, theyre begging iraq to slip up.

and the most humourous part of it all, is when rumsfeld says on tv how it makes him angry that us planes are being shot at when theyre patrolling THEIR no fly zones over SOMEONE ELSES COUNTRY.

does he, of all people, not know that the states have been bombing sites for 10 years? and they SERIOUSLY expect the iraq to sit by and take it all?! what the hell do they think?!

this is stupidity, ignorance, and hatrid all tied into one lovely comment by one of People magazines sexiest men of the year.

Excellent unbiased post....:eyebrow:

I would respond but I have to go pray that Iraq slips up so we can go to war. I want nothing more than to see American men and women in harms way.

Merry Christmas
 
you know how i feel about the united nations, i fully believe they are under the complete control of the us. what the un says, i really dont care, cause as far as im concerned the un is really the us except with a spelling error.

i could care less about what is filed under this chapter or that one, that does not change the fact its still wrong! dont be so blind to just follow where their red tape leads. the bottom line is what theyre doing is wrong, no matter what category they fall in.

if im biased, then so are you dreadsox. its impossible to be purely unbiased, i admit that, as im sure you would too.
 
its easy to be quiet and not heard.

a group of 16 people from my town are going to Jordan in January to build homes through "Build a Village" the "MCC" and "Habitat for Humanity." its great theyre doing this, but what bothers me is that if theres a war, they wont get to help the people of jordan because they will have to raise tents and take care of an expected 500,000 iraqi refugees which are expected to flee.

ofcourse, they wont take care of all them, but you get what im saying. it bothers me that they might not get to do what they were supposed to do in the first place, ya know? i mean, now these people wont have new homes, AND others will be forced out of whatever existing ones they have in iraq to move to a tent village. its very depressing.
 
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BUSH'S RACE TO WAR PUTS WORLD AT RISK



THE day has been marked in President Bush's diary. January 27, 2003. The date when he will decide on war against Iraq.

But no one really believes that a big decision will be taken in the White House on that day. The die was cast long ago.

Mr Bush and the warmongers in his cabinet want a war against Saddam Hussein. They say they must stop him because he has weapons of mass destruction.

But only one leader has weapons of mass destruction and plans to use them. His name is George W Bush and it is he who must be stopped.

What he plans to do against Iraq will not save lives or make peace. It will destabilise the world and threaten thousands, possibly millions.

President Bush is determined to go to war to demonstrate to the United States' rednecks that he is committed to the war on terrorism launched after 9/11.

Yesterday the Americans declared that Iraq is in "material breach" - the key words - of United Nations resolutions.

Not even the British government went that far. Though Jack Straw came close to it and will doubtless take the short step to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Mr Bush.

But they must be stopped. Before this mad, dangerous war is begun. The cost in human life could be enormous. It would far outweigh the current threat from Saddam.

It is true that weapons of mass destruction should not be allowed in the wrong hands.

But they are. They are in President Bush's. That is the greatest threat facing the world.
 
though that article is purely opinionated and not really fact based (as in, where are there sources?) i still agree with it.

it all comes down to, "who gave the americans the right to decide who can and can not have weapons of mass destruction?"

cant we all just get rid of ALL of them? :S
 
Cow of the Seas said:
it all comes down to, "who gave the americans the right to decide who can and can not have weapons of mass destruction?"

A good understanding of 20th century history will help you answer this question.
 
nbcrusader said:
We heard the same fanatical hyperbole when Reagan was elected. And just how many weapons of mass destruction did he unleash?

1. Reagan gave arms to the Ayatollah in Iran, using the Israelis as middlemen.

2. Reagan gave arms to death squads in Central America.

Both actions against U. S. laws. Yet, Clinton gets impeached for not admitting to a personal intercession.

Reagan-Bush-I gave arms and trained (CIA) Muhajedin, Why do you think they (Taliban) are so effective?

All weapons are dangerous in the wrong hands.

These are not the hands that build America.
 
nbcrusader said:


A good understanding of 20th century history will help you answer this question.

Which part of 20th Century history would you be referring to? From my studies, I seem to recall that only one nation has unleashed nuclear holocaust upon another. Is it possible that the U.S. is practicing the age old maxim, "Do as I say, not as I do" ?
 
nbcrusader said:


A good understanding of 20th century history will help you answer this question.

you know, if you have read any of my posts, you would realize that i enjoy learning my history. i believe it is fair to say i know a great deal of it too.

what a nice, smart ass remark from a loving conservative. dont you have any christmas fundraisers to attend and help raise funds for your wealthy politicians?

sula got you BANG ON. your comment is both ignorant and arrogant. extremely arrogant. yet another example of why people outside of the united states cant stand your countries policies.
 
sulawesigirl4 said:


Which part of 20th Century history would you be referring to? From my studies, I seem to recall that only one nation has unleashed nuclear holocaust upon another. Is it possible that the U.S. is practicing the age old maxim, "Do as I say, not as I do" ?

And I thank goodness the President made the right decision to use them. It was a wise choice. It saved American lives.

Last I knew, the Japanese started with a sneak attack on us.

If Chemical, Biological, or Nukes are used against us, our allies, I expect this President to act with the same intesity.

Do as I say not as I do? Saddam lost a war that he started and has not complied with the treaty.


Peace
 
Sula,

Its unfortunate that anyone had to be subjected to the A-bomb in 1945, but if the USA had not used the A-bomb to force Japan to surrender, tens of millions of Japanese citizens would have been killed in the continueing bombing that would have gone on into 1946 followed by a US military invasion of the Island. In this particular case the A-bomb saved far more lives than it took.

Hi Biased,

Its important to realize that Mujahadeen does not equal the Taliban. Those were two different groups. If there is anyone group that is clearly the descendent of the Mujahadeen its the Northern Alliance that opposed the Taliban.

The article you posted is similar to the liberal trash that was everywhere before the first Gulf War. None of it was so, the articles speculations of what would be the results of the first Gulf War never happened. You'd think by now they would be a little more informed and objective.
 
Cow of the Seas said:


what a nice, smart ass remark from a loving conservative. dont you have any christmas fundraisers to attend and help raise funds for your wealthy politicians?


NB Fundraiser at my house. It will go to the "Nuke the Gay Whales for Jesus Fund":wink:

Why is that smart ass? I am really curious. To take WWII and the use of Nuke's today is a reasonable response? I am sincere in my curiosity of your beliefs that this is a reasonable comparison.
 
Sting2, in all honesty that argument only adds up to so much rhetoric in my book. And I'm sure it is little comfort to the innocent civilians who were killed or maimed nor to the generations that will continue to suffer from the genetic effects. Nor does it explain the salient point - that of the U.S.'s assumption of the right to monitor weapons of mass destruction when their track record for usage of such weapons is less than stellar. If we are expecting to lead the world by example, then what sort of example has been set in the past and is being set now?
 
Cow,

Ensuring the security and stability of the region and the planet by disarming Saddam is not wrong. Just like when the police arrest people in your neigborhood for violations of certain laws is not wrong. Police often have to use deadly force to ensure that the safety of the community. Saddam agreed with the international community 12 years ago to give up all his Weapons of Mass Destruction with the understanding that if he did not, he would be disarmed with military force is necessary.

If you don't care about international law or the United Nations, fine. The need to disarm Iraq can be made simply on the grounds of national and international security. Saddam's invasions and attacks on four different countries in the past 20 years combined with his pursuit of WMD programs threaten the world to such a degree that he must be disarmed. It is wrong to allow threats to materialize and kill thousands of people!
 
sulawesigirl4 said:
Nor does it explain the salient point - that of the U.S.'s assumption of the right to monitor weapons of mass destruction when their track record for usage of such weapons is less than stellar. If we are expecting to lead the world by example, then what sort of example has been set in the past and is being set now?

I do believe, the United Nations is monitoring the WMD. As for enforcing the resolutions, it seems we are looked upon to supply the bulk of the resourses for every MAJOR conflict around the globe.

It is obvious that you do not believe that the United States was justified in their use of nuclear weapons in WWII. I am certain that there is nothing that can be said here to convince you otherwise.

That leads me to the SALIENT issue. Would you prefer that Saddam have the technology? This is a man that launched missle ten years ago into a country that had committed no act of agression against them. Do you believe that nothing should be done?

I am not putting words into your mouth, I am asking questions. On another thread it was said that the we should not be using WWII to talk about how much the US has done for the world. Well, I would say the same applies here. In my mind, your WWII argument lends more support to the fact that this man needs to be disarmed. I believe he will use them.....

Peace
 
Sula,

That fact that the war did not continue beyond August of 1945 and kill millions more Japanese citizens and US soldiers is not rhetoric but fact. It is easy to take the suffering of a particular group of people and use that to justify that action A or B was wrong and not offer any alternative solution. The decision to use the A-Bomb was not an easy one and was done to stop the war quickly there by saving millions of lives. Your solution would have been I assume to obviously not use the A-Bomb there by killing millions more people. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what would you have done if you were President Truman?

If you properly understood the context in which the Atom Bomb was used back in 1945, you would see that it does not conflict with US policy today. It is in the interest of the international community and the USA that weapons of mass destruction be monitored. Most countries on the planet agree with this. The USA has every right to defend itself, and the monitoring of such weapons and preventing violations of agreed to international treaties helps the USA defend itself and other nations from these threats. The USA has set an excellant example about how to conduct one's self on the international stage over the past 60 years and is one of the main reasons why the world has not destroyed itself or is dominated by worldwide communist dictatorships.
 
So many things to reply to in this thread.

Firstly, I completely agree with sula's point that it's hard for the US to claim to lead by example when it's the only country in the world ever to have used nuclear weapons. I also agree that their use in Japan was wholly unjustified.

Secondly, people very frequently refer to Saddam's acts of aggression against other countries, and yet neglect to mention the most agressive country in the region - Israel which has not only invaded, but also occupied other countries. Why is there no condemnation of Israel from the United States? Why is that every President of the United States declares his support for Israel? And, don't forget that not only does Israel posess nuclear weapons, but it also continues to imprison Mordechai Vanunu for no crime than to tell people of Israel's nuclear weapons programme - how can anyone defend that?

STING2 -from what I've read there are very clear links between the Mujahedeen and the Taliban, far more so than to the Northern Alliance. I'd be interested in any info you have on that subject though. Also, I disagree that people's concerns prior to the 1991 Gulf War were "liberal trash" - if I recall correctly many writers predicted horrific consequences for the Iraqi people, and considering that 100,000 Iraqi citizens were killed I think those predictions were accurate.

Finally, just a point that someone mentioned to me a few days back - if Iraq really did have weapons of mass destruction, wouldn't the surest way to provoke Saddam into using them be to threaten him with war? After all, it's been made fairly clear that any war on Iraq would be likely to kill Saddam himself, so if he has nothing left to lose, wouldn't that make him more likely to use any weapons he has access to? I'd like to hear what other people think on the subject.

*Fizz
 
Fizzing-
did Kuwait threaten Saddam to use their tanks against them in 1991?:huh:

i can see Liberals are starting their predictable dance..:angry:

DB9
 
Last edited:
Fizzing,

I'd be interested in your explanation as to why you think the use of the Atomic Bomb was wholly unjustified. What would you have done if you had been President of the USA at that time?

Israel is far from being the most aggressive country in the region. Israel was ATTACKED on the first day of its independence and has since that day been faced with extermination by the numberous Arab countries that surround it. Israel is a country that has acted only in its self defense. Acting in its self defense has in the past required it to act before other countries did to prevent it from being overrun and its population slaughtered by Arab armies. It has taken land in order to better defend itself and will give that land back once a peace agreement is hammered out. Until recently this past year, most Arab governments were against Israel's right to even exist. It should be obvious why the USA supports Israel. The Arabs could of had peace back in 1948 but they chose war. Israel is a democracy and its actions are light years away from Saddam and his dictatorship in Iraq. There is no comparison.

First I'd say the Mujahadeen as it was in the 1980s has little to do with either the Taliban or Northern Alliance. The Mujahadeen existed before the USA began providing 1/3 of their funding along with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan providing the rest. The USA pulled out of the region entirely when the Soviet Union left Afghanistan in 1989. The Taliban came to power in 1996 from schools in Pakistan along the border. Military equipment purchased during the 1980s had mostly long since been used and was no longer around when the Taliban came in. The primary leader of the Mujahadeen during the 1980s(sorry I can't remember the name at the moment) was the leader of the Northern Alliance. He was murdered by terrorist from Bin Ladin posing as TV reporters trying to interview him on Sept. 10, 2001.

In regards to the Gulf War, it is estimated that 100,000 Iraqi soldiers were killed in action. Civilian losses are far less because civilians were not targeted. In Baghdad Saddam himself hid in Civilian area's during the Gulf War as well as stationing tanks and other military equipment in schools and hospitals to prevent them from being destroyed by Coalition aircraft. Most of the liberal writers predicted that Baghdad and other cities would be leveled to the ground like we saw often in World War II. The USA certainly had the capability to this, but the USA was able through advancements in technology to target with pinpoint accuracy a large number of military targets in and around Baghdad without damaging civilian areas. That does not mean that there was not any damage to civilian area's, but the level of damage was less than 1% of what liberal writers had predicted.

Saddam has already crossed the line of using weapons of mass destruction. By attacking we will have a better capability of controlling where he uses such weapons and the ability of preventing him from using the weapons in a quantity and level that would be very destructive to civilian populations. Thats a far better situation than waiting for Saddam to use his Mass Destruction weapons in planned and prepared way that covers up that he is behind the terrorist action to begin with.
 
Cow of the Seas said:


what a nice, smart ass remark from a loving conservative.

Seeing DEATHBEAR call someone else a smart ass is about as ridiculous as me putting on a Batman costume and running through a crowded, busy shopping mall on Christmas Eve slapping shoppers on the ass.

~U2Alabama
 
fuck this bullshit:

where I come from, if a kid in the playground comes up and kicks you in the balls, you break his nose, to ensure he never does that to you, or anyone else, again.

japan attacked us first, and I'm am truly sorry and sad that so many innocent japanese were killed and maimed in the attacks on hiroshima and nagasaki, and they did not deserve that fate; I hope they are at peace in the heavens; but it ended the war that potentially could have lasted another 10 years, and japan could have avoided the tragic fates of those cities IF THEY HAD NOT BOMBED US IN THE FIRST PLACE.

why did we go to war in afghanistan?

oh yeah...because the taliban were haboring al-queda...WHO DESTROYED THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AND ATTACKED THE PENTAGON.

now, iraq cannot account for some of their biological/ and or chemical weapons........

hmmm....maybe saddam sent it to santa clause in the holiday spirit.....
or maybe ben laden is taking stock of it right now.

whatever the case, I was not convinced of the case against iraq until the u.n. itself said that iraq "missed an opportunity" for peace.

everyone continue to argue the point, because in the end, the world is a better place without saddam, and I'm sure the u.s. will be hit again by another terrorist attack.


I'm going to watch south park.
 
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