4U2Play
Refugee
BonoVoxSupastar said:Who's lost a debate?
OK, let's call it even...
I win, you lose.
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BonoVoxSupastar said:Who's lost a debate?
anitram said:What's the problem here?
If somebody wastes their money at a strip club, so?
If you see a homeless man on the street and you give him $10 and tell him to go buy himself lunch, and instead he goes and buys a cheap bottle of wine and gets tanked, does that negate the fact you did the right thing by helping him out?
People spend money on all kinds of nonsense all the time. And if they had no money for food at the end of the day because they spent it on Hooters, well that's their problem.
AchtungBono said:
What exactly IS a debit card? Is that a card where instead of charging the customer they charge the service provider? What's the difference between this and a credit card?
BonoVoxSupastar said:No it just proves a last minute, without a plan, wanting to cover up for their fucking up will do for you...
Dreadsox said:
I no longer give the homeless the money. I give the money to the food pantry and help cook the meals. If they wish to eat, they can come to where the food is, so I can see with my own eyes that they are eating.
nbcrusader said:
We must live is a world with few problems when we can expect a debit card just for living through a hurricane.
Dreadsox said:Fuck Spelling!
Oh, shit....I am sorry if I offended someone. My bad.
MrsSpringsteen said:Or that Bush stymies so many attempts to do something about global warming (and doesn't seem at all concerned with it), and appoints hacks who have vested and corporate interests to environmental positions. I watched Al Gore the other night on Larry King, it was a real eye opener. I want to see that movie and read the book.
nbcrusader said:
If anything, I hope Gore's movie opens the door to honest debate on the topic. The lack of honest debate is the real inconvenient truth on that subject.
Irvine511 said:you're right -- i do wish oil companies and the GOP would stop paying "scientists" to dispute widely agreed upon science.
nbcrusader said:Climatologists - the ones you may actually know what they are talking about - have not come to a consensus on "global warming".
And surely you must know that consensus is politics and science is built on fact, and it makes testable predictions and is falsifiable. What makes the Greenhouse theory scientific is that it is testable and could be disproved by a measurement that showed CO2 had no trapping effect of long wave radiation. Earths climate is bigger than the greenhouse effect and this almost infinite complexity makes modelling it a bitch and authoratative claims somewhat dubious - an that goes one way or another. I remain agnostic towards large magnitude anthropogenic climate change by carbon emissions, I fully accept that climate change occurs all through the geological record and think that the rapid increase in CO2 that we have recorded may not rank much if we looked back at the record through proxies 1 million years from now. I also think that claims of mass extinction by climate change right now and the recent rise in carbon will definitely be kicking off a new Greenhouse Earth are and should be treated as, junk science.Irvine511 said:
on this we disagree.
and come on -- we know what junk science really is. the first word begins with an "I" and the second word begins with a "D" ...
Who the hell gave Young the right to dispute widely agreed upon science? The problem here is that every group in the public arena has an agenda and they prey upon either peoples desire to save the world or relax because everything is fine.Irvine511 said:
you're right -- i do wish oil companies and the GOP would stop paying "scientists" to dispute widely agreed upon science.
linkArctic sea level has been falling by a little over 2mm a year - a movement that sets the region against the global trend of rising waters.
A Dutch-UK team made the discovery after analysing radar altimetry data gathered by Europe’s ERS-2 satellite.
It is well known that the world’s oceans do not share a uniform height; but even so, the scientists are somewhat puzzled by their results.
Global sea level is expected to keep on climbing as the Earth’s climate warms.
To find the Arctic out of step, even temporarily, emphasises the great need for more research in the region, the team says.
A_Wanderer said:There is a lot of investigation going on into past climate, there is a lot of productive scientific debate and it is a really good thing, the facts are what we should base a response on (so Kyoto which achieves nothing is a waste of time). It may be fun to characterise it between an enlightened few gorebots and an array of troglodite Christians but it is also unfair.
Irvine511 said:i also fully agree that more research is needed, systems are complex, etc. but what i don't think is disputable is that many "dissidents" of global warming do so for political reasons -- basically to give people who don't want to change their lifestyles, who don't want to stop driving their Hummers, who don't want to stop running their air conditioners with the windows open, who don't want to hear anything about the very strong possibility that their lifestyles might have a deleterous impact upon the planet. that's why it's crucial for the people who peddle various products to the middle class Western consumer to give them an "out," so to speak, about either their culpability in environmental degredation or the veracity of their personal impact on global warming, lest they be motivated to change their habits and spend less on petrol and great big cars.
nbcrusader said:
The companion to your statement (and you capture the voice of a large segment of society) is that most of the supporters of global warming theories do so for political purposes. By demonizing big corporations and SUV's, the average person can satisfy the need to express moral outrage without doing anything - or focusing on areas of true need.
It also gives an individual an inflated sense of value. Personal impact on "global warming" is not measurable. Collective impact is negligible given the vast size of our atmosphere.
The argument over global warming is actually a luxury of Western society. We face no daily dangers in life - no searching for food (just waiting until Whole Foods opens), no fear of wild animals (unless we crawl in the cage at the zoo), etc. There are people in this world who do face daily life-threatening dangers. So instead of helping those in real need, we vilify the large car driver and the corporate executive and convince ourselves that our work is done.
But it is a theory, getting greater scientific literacy means having people understand that scientific theories are not just guesses but testable and falsifiable models is important.and i love the global warming "theory" -- very deliberate
A_Wanderer said:But it is a theory, getting greater scientific literacy means having people understand that scientific theories are not just guesses but testable and falsifiable models is important.
Global warming, or the absorbtion of long wave radiation by greenhouse gases like CO2 is testable and provable. That is what makes it a scientific theory. Just like the testable theory of evolution or the theory of gravity.
ID is not a scientific theory as it makes no testable predictions, it isn't falsifiable and the framework of evolution better explains the observations. The closest science I can find is along the lines of string "theory" which is at present untestable.
You may complain that most people don't know what a scientific theory is but you will not get widespread understanding unless you adress the issue.
The greenhouse effect is a scientific theory, anthropogenic climate change is at present is nowhere near as robust.
A_Wanderer said:I will say that the literature I have read and the experts I have seen quoted say that the hurricane frequency and intensity are not connected to global warming.