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Old 12-02-2004, 01:32 PM   #31
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you are very kind U2democrat. i admire your posts very much -- hard to believe you're only in high school!

i hope to vote for you one day, with a big, fat D next to your name (i am registered to vote in VA).
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Old 12-02-2004, 01:55 PM   #32
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


I realize this. The aim of the study, as reported, appears not to correct the inaccuracies, but to discredit all abstenence programs.
Playing devils advocate here....

Are you taking the position that abstinance programs should be filled with innacuracies?

If they are saying that two of the programs are good, in an effort to point out that others are not so good, why is this wrong?
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Old 12-02-2004, 01:57 PM   #33
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Originally posted by Irvine511



direct quote from the article: "Congress first allocated money for abstinence-only programs in 1999, setting aside $80 million in grants, which go to a variety of religious, civic and medical organizations. To be eligible, groups must limit discussion of contraception to failure rates."
ah-HA, here's the problem: I went to a private school so all of the pro-abstinence curriculums I've encountered in grade school or church were never funded by the State and thus were not subject to limits on discussed material.
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Old 12-02-2004, 02:00 PM   #34
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Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


ah-HA, here's the problem: I went to a private school so all of the pro-abstinence curriculums I've encountered in grade school or church were never funded by the State and thus were not subject to limits on discussed material.

right. and your parents made that choice. but we're talking about federal dollars for programs that are in public schools that distribute false, misleading, and potentially deadly information.

again, that's crazy.

private schools can teach whatever they damn well please. just dont' ask me to pay for it.
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Old 12-02-2004, 02:03 PM   #35
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And please do not ask me to teach it.
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Old 12-02-2004, 02:13 PM   #36
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I've witnessed all types of sex-ed programs. The ones that the most efficient from my perspective are those that are a combination of both. Teach abstinence, but be honest in how to deal with sex if they decide to have it. Don't use shame to drive them away. You have to show both sides.

The examples shown here are just discusting and I would pull my child out of school if they brought home this shit.
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Old 12-02-2004, 02:34 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


Playing devils advocate here....

Are you taking the position that abstinance programs should be filled with innacuracies?

If they are saying that two of the programs are good, in an effort to point out that others are not so good, why is this wrong?
One notation of the two good programs got lost with the "scandelous" headlines of the other inaccuracies. I am for correcting the material to be accurate.
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Old 12-02-2004, 02:44 PM   #38
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


One notation of the two good programs got lost with the "scandelous" headlines of the other inaccuracies. I am for correcting the material to be accurate.
but i think the point is that to teach abstinence as the only acceptable method of sexual education is, by definition, inaccurate.
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Old 12-02-2004, 02:47 PM   #39
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I believe it should be taught as an option. I do not believe it should be innacurate, and I do believe if my TAX money is being used, other options must be taught for the health and safety of the children who choose not to abstain.
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Old 12-02-2004, 02:49 PM   #40
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Originally posted by Irvine511
you are very kind U2democrat. i admire your posts very much -- hard to believe you're only in high school!

i hope to vote for you one day, with a big, fat D next to your name (i am registered to vote in VA).
awww thanks. i hope to live in DC one day, unfortunately is so freakin expensive!
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Old 12-02-2004, 02:50 PM   #41
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
I believe it should be taught as an option. I do not believe it should be innacurate, and I do believe if my TAX money is being used, other options must be taught for the health and safety of the children who choose not to abstain.

yes, this is what comprehensive sex education is. you know how to use contraceptives, are aware of the risks, and reminded that the only 100% way to stay safe is to abstain.

this is what Waxman is talking about. the way that abstinence-only programs sell their methods is through the willful distortion of information.
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Old 12-02-2004, 02:50 PM   #42
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
I believe it should be taught as an option. I do not believe it should be innacurate, and I do believe if my TAX money is being used, other options must be taught for the health and safety of the children who choose not to abstain.
I agree.
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Old 12-02-2004, 02:52 PM   #43
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awww thanks. i hope to live in DC one day, unfortunately is so freakin expensive!

it certainly is, but it's cheaper than New York!

it's also getting better and better ... lots to do, and more than just politicos hanging about these days. we've got artists too.
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Old 12-02-2004, 09:16 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
you've entirely missed my point. the root of these abstinence programs is fear of human sexuality. adults, teens, whoever. this was a broader philosophical point which you've taken in a very narrow context.

Taken the narrow context? Where? And I didn't miss the point. We're talking about young teens having sex. You explicitly said "at the root of all these abstience program is fear: of the body, and of pleasure -- the shocking idea that we can responsibly enjoy our bodies as adults." If you were a so called teacher, you'd realize that these kids you're teaching aren't adults, they are kids that don't know jack about what they're getting themselves into.
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Old 12-02-2004, 09:52 PM   #45
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seems you've made up your mind, but you are misunderstanding what i'm talking about.

you have sanctimoniously misinterpreted what i said. these programs are designed, implemented, and taught by adults who have very specific ideas of what is and what isn't acceptable. the idea of pleasure is a very broad, very philosophical point. the whole Protestant Work ethic is based upon the denial of pleasure, and the idea that pleasure is not something to be feared, or kept in a box, is something that is very threatening to many with a narrow worldview. many people have written about this. if you missed that, i'm sorry i didn't communicate better -- this forum hardly lends itself to nuance. we are not talking about young teens having sex. we're talking about sex ed classes. i don't think fear should be used as a teaching method, nor do i believe scientifically inaccurate information should be disseminated as a means of insitlling that fear. i don't think the body is a bad thing, nor do i think sex should be viewed in a negative context.

i'm somewhat offended by your responses because you're assuming that, if i were to be in charge of a sex ed class, i'd go on about how pleasurable sex is. i do not think teens are adults, nor should the be treated as such. but they will need to know how to make decisions as adults (and you're talking to someone who was a virgin until well into college). maybe that suits whatever purposes you have in mind, but i have been a real teacher, not a so-called teacher, and i have actively discouraged sexual activity with the same words you used: essentially, "wait, you don't need to complicate your lives."
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