AussieU2fanman
Refugee
I was prompted by the other thread of the little girl being 'miraculously' cured of cancer to start a thread dedicated to the world of miracles in general.
Miracles sure are an integral part of Christianity. With regards to the little girl, I'm happy she no longer has cancer, however, I do have numerous problems with calling what happened to this girl a 'miracle.'
Am I the only one fascinated by the fact God exclusively cures cancer when people pray to him? How come God only performs his 'miracles' when the situation is ambiguous? In this case, everybody knows that our medical world really knows very little about cancer (that's why we can't cure it yet). So to say that doctors can't explain why the cancer disappeared, therefore it's a miracle seems ludicrous to me. Our medical knowledge is quite limited into the field (there is so much we don't understand), so a reason for its disappearance shouldn't be attributed to GOD, it should logically be attributed to some behaviour or characteristc of cancer we haven't discovered yet! God of the Gaps sound familiar anyone? Look how far the God of the Gaps role has been diminishing in the past several centuries, and you can bet it will be reduced even further when we discover a cure for cancer!
What I don't understand is if God really wants to prove his presence in this world, why won't he perform them in situations which are NON-AMBIGUOUS.
Like the miracles that alledgidly happened in the Bible. None of those were ambiguous, they were all very clearly done through the power of God and NO other explanation is possible (according to historical heresay).
So why won't God heal an amputee, or why won't God heal the blind. No matter how much people pray, no matter how genuine and fervent they are about their faith and God's healing power, they will never be healed. Why?
In the Bible, Jesus says, "For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you."
He also says "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. "
God will never answer their prayers. It is clear that if we ask anything of God, we shall recieve, but that's never the case.
I find it quite bizarre that people would be respond to this by saying 'Oh but God can't do miracles that are that obvious, he's trying to remain hidden.' The entire course of Christianity is riddled with very clear accounts of God's power where God is revealing himself and NOT trying to remain hidden! However, ever since we have been able to be more critical and myths have stop being misused as historical fact, and now that we require evidence of such things, God's power has COMPLETELY disappeared and none of these clear cut miracles have been occuring at all!
People also respond to God refusing to answer prayers by saying 'It's not God's will.' So all those millions and millions of fervent believers who pray to God and are genuine about their faith and their request is unselfish get shunned by God because it is 'not his will, he has a plan for them.' Come on, it sounds like a very standard defence mechanism for a blind follower. We hear thousands and thousands of people dying of cancer all the time, and so rarely do we hear about these 'miracles.' Imagine how many Christians die of cancer, and how many are 'healed' by the power of God, and then you do the math, he sounds like a very very cruel God.
Also I think Christians are contradicting themselves (correct me if I am wrong) when they say, God has a plan for everyone, he knows what is going to happen in the future, and yet we pray that God changes the future.......that doesn't make sense to me at all. If he knows what is going to happen to everyone in the future and he has a plan for everyone, why are we arrogantly asking him to change them through prayer?
Finally, if miracles are only possible through the one and only God, how can you explain all the disappearing of cancer from non-Christians. A study was recently done (2002 I believe), that got 100 Christians with cancer and 100 non-Christians (athiests, muslims, jews, everything) and all the Christians had their family and friends pray for them and the non-Christians had nothing like that. The result is a forgone conclusion for any rational person. The sucess rate of recovery was exactly the same, needless to say really. I'll find the link for it.
In conclusion I think what Jesus really meant was, 'Ask anything of me, and if it is my will, and if the situation is totally ambiguous as there is room for other rational explanations, and then I will give it to you!'
Miracles Shmiracles! Let's just be happy that some people recover from cancer from something we haven't discovered yet in the medical realm, instead of labelling cancer erradication divine intervention and perpetuating ignorance.
Sorry If I come off as hostile, I'm just quite confused about the whole concept.
Miracles sure are an integral part of Christianity. With regards to the little girl, I'm happy she no longer has cancer, however, I do have numerous problems with calling what happened to this girl a 'miracle.'
Am I the only one fascinated by the fact God exclusively cures cancer when people pray to him? How come God only performs his 'miracles' when the situation is ambiguous? In this case, everybody knows that our medical world really knows very little about cancer (that's why we can't cure it yet). So to say that doctors can't explain why the cancer disappeared, therefore it's a miracle seems ludicrous to me. Our medical knowledge is quite limited into the field (there is so much we don't understand), so a reason for its disappearance shouldn't be attributed to GOD, it should logically be attributed to some behaviour or characteristc of cancer we haven't discovered yet! God of the Gaps sound familiar anyone? Look how far the God of the Gaps role has been diminishing in the past several centuries, and you can bet it will be reduced even further when we discover a cure for cancer!
What I don't understand is if God really wants to prove his presence in this world, why won't he perform them in situations which are NON-AMBIGUOUS.
Like the miracles that alledgidly happened in the Bible. None of those were ambiguous, they were all very clearly done through the power of God and NO other explanation is possible (according to historical heresay).
So why won't God heal an amputee, or why won't God heal the blind. No matter how much people pray, no matter how genuine and fervent they are about their faith and God's healing power, they will never be healed. Why?
In the Bible, Jesus says, "For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you."
He also says "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. "
God will never answer their prayers. It is clear that if we ask anything of God, we shall recieve, but that's never the case.
I find it quite bizarre that people would be respond to this by saying 'Oh but God can't do miracles that are that obvious, he's trying to remain hidden.' The entire course of Christianity is riddled with very clear accounts of God's power where God is revealing himself and NOT trying to remain hidden! However, ever since we have been able to be more critical and myths have stop being misused as historical fact, and now that we require evidence of such things, God's power has COMPLETELY disappeared and none of these clear cut miracles have been occuring at all!
People also respond to God refusing to answer prayers by saying 'It's not God's will.' So all those millions and millions of fervent believers who pray to God and are genuine about their faith and their request is unselfish get shunned by God because it is 'not his will, he has a plan for them.' Come on, it sounds like a very standard defence mechanism for a blind follower. We hear thousands and thousands of people dying of cancer all the time, and so rarely do we hear about these 'miracles.' Imagine how many Christians die of cancer, and how many are 'healed' by the power of God, and then you do the math, he sounds like a very very cruel God.
Also I think Christians are contradicting themselves (correct me if I am wrong) when they say, God has a plan for everyone, he knows what is going to happen in the future, and yet we pray that God changes the future.......that doesn't make sense to me at all. If he knows what is going to happen to everyone in the future and he has a plan for everyone, why are we arrogantly asking him to change them through prayer?
Finally, if miracles are only possible through the one and only God, how can you explain all the disappearing of cancer from non-Christians. A study was recently done (2002 I believe), that got 100 Christians with cancer and 100 non-Christians (athiests, muslims, jews, everything) and all the Christians had their family and friends pray for them and the non-Christians had nothing like that. The result is a forgone conclusion for any rational person. The sucess rate of recovery was exactly the same, needless to say really. I'll find the link for it.
In conclusion I think what Jesus really meant was, 'Ask anything of me, and if it is my will, and if the situation is totally ambiguous as there is room for other rational explanations, and then I will give it to you!'
Miracles Shmiracles! Let's just be happy that some people recover from cancer from something we haven't discovered yet in the medical realm, instead of labelling cancer erradication divine intervention and perpetuating ignorance.
Sorry If I come off as hostile, I'm just quite confused about the whole concept.