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Old 01-23-2002, 05:39 PM   #1
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Military Spending.

President Bush has apparently decided to increase US military spending by $48 billion. FORTY-EIGHT BILLION DOLLARS. $48,000,000,000.

24,000 children die of starvation every day.

2,700 children die of measles every day (which, by the way, is a disease which has been almost entirely eradicated in "developed" countries due to inexpensive vaccination progams)

1100 million people don't have access to clean water.

1200 million people live on less than a dollar a day.

100 million children don't have access to even the most basic education.

Poor countries still pay over $59 million a day to their creditors.


You know...there are enough weapons in this world to destroy it several times over. Why are governments still investing money in this? WHY? WHY do we want to cause destruction? Why spend money on hurting people, killing people, destroying people's homes. WHY? Why can't we spend that money on helping people, on saving lives, on building homes, on providing food, on giving children education, on providing healthcare. WHY NOT?

I know that's a ridiculously simplistic analysis and this whole post is prompted by the fact that I'm watching the news, hearing about $48 billion on military spending and thinking that there has to be an alternative to this, it doesn't have to be like this, it shouldn't be like this. And I hate that it is like this. And that all I'm doing about it is bitching and ranting on an internet message board.
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Old 01-23-2002, 05:43 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees:
And that all I'm doing about it is bitching and ranting on an internet message board.
Well, educate yourself when you vote for your representitives for the House and the Senate. Write your rep a letter with these questions, you'd be surprised at how many times people get personal thought out responses.
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Old 01-23-2002, 05:47 PM   #3
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Don't forget that over 45 million Americans lack health insurance.

I think the trouble is definitely on priorities. I understand that we are supposedly fighting a war, but $48 billion is obsessive. It seems like the belief is that the more money you throw at something, somehow the better it is. Where are our fiscal conservatives to call this "wasteful" spending of our tax dollars? Welcome back to Reagan-era military excess. I don't think the Democratic Senate pushed Bush to do this either .

In the meantime, I feel like our own infrastructure is being neglected. It is only too bad that $48 billion didn't get infused into a "war on poverty." Or to help rebuild our neglected cities. Man...just think how money like that would help...

Melon

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Old 01-23-2002, 06:00 PM   #4
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Old 01-23-2002, 06:22 PM   #5
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Thanks for the Stats Fizzing.. Always a treat to read.. Let's have a nice list of afghans who have shaved their beard, or women who have had multiple partners after the Taliban was roused out.. yes i did write rouse..

Anyways, It was written that 'We Have enough weapons to destroy the world seven times around'.. or something to that sort.. We're not just making more AK47's or more bombs.. We're in the process of developing a state of the art Defense system that may very likely one day save you, from having a Nuke warhead drop in your beer mug and shatter that nice little cup your kid made for you in first grade.. nevermind your entire body being burned in a fraction of a second..
... Not to mention the cost it takes to disarm our Nukes..

We also do not 'want to cause destruction' .. as was posted... fact is, War is sometimes the only option to make a point, get rid of a horrible situation.. I highly doubt that Bin Laden would be privy to chattin' around a cup of Fecical Latte at the nearest Starbucks... He'd probably be checking out all the scantily clad poem readers anyways..

Priorities you ask?.. Were you watching the news back in September.. Two planes smashed into two towers and terrorism killed 3000 people (Yes I realize.. a bad attempt at sarcasm) ... All of a sudden that's just going to be the priority... It's a shame that it was posted we are 'supposedly' fighting a war.. Here.. I'll send you two hundred dollars to ride the next plane hijacked into the ocean.. or maybe the one hit with the next missile fired by an F-16... Then you'll wish that we had disrupted terrorism in the world.

But it's not the only priority.. What has Bush been pushing with great force especially the past month and a half.. The Economy.. It's jsut that your liberal friends are blocking any attempt at actually helping the economy and helping get people back on their feet with things like 'more unemployment'.. But that's for another thread..

Like I wrote at the top of the post, I'm in the process of looking up more facts, but this thread is at the moment in its infancy I'll assume, with people dropping opinions...


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Old 01-23-2002, 06:28 PM   #6
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I tend towards the conservative side of things. I will say that I think we could perhaps trim a bit off that $48 billion and use it to help repair Afghanistan.
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Old 01-23-2002, 06:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
Don't forget that over 45 million Americans lack health insurance.

I think the trouble is definitely on priorities. I understand that we are supposedly fighting a war, but $48 billion is obsessive. It seems like the belief is that the more money you throw at something, somehow the better it is. Where are our fiscal conservatives to call this "wasteful" spending of our tax dollars? Welcome back to Reagan-era military excess. I don't think the Democratic Senate pushed Bush to do this either .

In the meantime, I feel like our own infrastructure is being neglected. It is only too bad that $48 billion didn't get infused into a "war on poverty." Or to help rebuild our neglected cities. Man...just think how money like that would help...

Melon

Right on Melon! That's what I was gonna point out too. That $48 billion could very well be used to increase the quality of life for all people. *sigh* Too bad I wasn't old enough to vote in this last election.

Speedracer, I definitely like your idea too! I would love to see the United States become an example to the world of the good things that can be done...instead of what it is now.

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[This message has been edited by hippyactress (edited 01-23-2002).]
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Old 01-23-2002, 07:24 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer:
I tend towards the conservative side of things. I will say that I think we could perhaps trim a bit off that $48 billion and use it to help repair Afghanistan.
There's actually a 4.5 billion five year project of aid to Afghanistan... In the First Year alone we're giving 296 Million to Afghanistan.

Ambassadors to Good Will, and Of What Can Be Done, We Truly Are!

Congrats America.

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[This message has been edited by Lemonite (edited 01-23-2002).]
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Old 01-23-2002, 07:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:
Wouldn't John Maynard Keynes be proud?
What do you mean, sulawesigirl14?

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Old 01-23-2002, 07:35 PM   #10
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Here's The Article in Question..

It answers a lot of speculation that will probably be made without reading what the report actually is....

It was posted above that an alternative for the money would be to improve the quality of life.. How About Maintaining the Quality of Life we Have First.. We ARE at War you realize..
A few more bandages for a civilian aren't going to stop a Box of anthrax from being dropped into one's cereal during breakfast.

Again, In reading it.. I don't know why people are still out there saying Bush is only getting hardon's with just getting his agenda through.. The majority of People just aren't believing it.. It's a tried tactic, but It just doesn't carry weight with this president.. He has character. He cares for America.... He cares for you...

ANyways.. on to the article

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Bush Proposes More Defense Spending


By Sonya Ross
Associated Press Writer
Wednesday, January 23, 2002; 6:20 PM

WASHINGTON President Bush on Wednesday proposed the biggest increase in military spending in 20 years, nearly $50 billion more next year, and said America "will not cut corners" in the war against terrorism.

He pledged he would not seek political advantage from that war.

The president outlined the military part of his fiscal 2003 budget proposal in a luncheon speech before the Reserve Officers Association. He said his highest budget priority is twofold the military abroad and safety at home even though that will create financial strain for the federal government.

"I have a responsibility to prepare the nation for all that lies ahead," Bush said. "There will be no room for misunderstanding. The most basic commitment of our government will be the security of our country."

Bush spoke a few hours after a closed-door session with House and Senate leaders at the White House, in which he gave an update on the anti-terrorism effort and told the lawmakers, "I have no ambition whatsoever to use this as a political issue. There is no daylight between the executive and the legislative branches."

According to congressional and White House sources who related the scene to The Associated Press, Bush's pledge drew no response. Among those present was Bush's political adviser Karl Rove, who incensed Democrats last week when he told a GOP conference that the Republican Party is better suited for carrying out the war on terrorism.

A senior White House official said Wednesday that Rove was reflecting on the viewpoint of partisan and independent pollsters that Republicans are considered stronger on national security than Democrats. The Democrats turned the speech into a political issue by accusing him of politicizing the war, the official said.

If approved by the House and Senate, the $48 billion would be the largest increase in military spending since President Reagan held office two decades ago. Bush said the extra money would go toward missile defense, pay increases for service personnel and acquisition of precision weaponry, unmanned vehicles and high-tech equipment.

On Capitol Hill, some Democrats greeted Bush's plan with skepticism. Sen. Daniel Inouye, D-Hawaii, defense chairman for the Senate Appropriations Committee, said lawmamber of the Senate Armed Forces Committee, said he believes Congress ultimately will support Bush. "Clearly the people of the United States understand the terrorist threat poised at this nation, and will accept and indeed applaud the president's initiative," Warner said.

Bush said the $2 trillion budget he will submit to Congress next month will devote $380 billion to the Pentagon, an increase of $48 billion. That includes a $10 billion "war reserve" for active military operations overseas, said White House budget chief Mitchell Daniels.

Bush's budget will project deficits of $106 billion for this year and $80 billion for the 2003 fiscal year that begins Oct. 1, Daniels said. He said Bush anticipates a return to surpluses in 2005, with $61 billion in black ink.

Bush said that acquiring more modern weaponry may strain the budget, but "we will not cut corners when it comes to the defense of our great land."

"The tools of modern warfare are effective, they are expensive. But in order to win this war against terror, they are essential," Bush said.

Retired Air Force Col. P.J. Crowley, national security spokesman under President Clinton, agreed that it is necessary to increase defense spending, given the operations in Afghanistan. But he said that Bush may run into problems sustaining high funding levels over time.

"Defense spending works most effectively when there are steady increases that allow the military to plan," Crowley said. "Given that we have seen surpluses change to deficits, if this defense program ends up going in fits and starts ... we'll spend a lot of money but not translate that into increased military capability."

For the budget year beginning on Oct. 1, Bush also is expected to substantially increase the amount allotted for homeland security, currently at $13 billion. He said Wednesday that he wants to put forth a "sustained strategy" that calls for hiring 30,000 airport security workers and 300 extra FBI agents, buying new equipment to improve mail safety, expanding bioterrorism research and upgrading public health labs nationwide.

"We'll ensure that state and local firemen and police and rescue workers are prepared for terrorism. And we will do more to secure our borders," Bush said. "In order to make sure we're safe in the long run, we must find the terrorists wherever they think they can hide and, as I like to say, get 'em."




[This message has been edited by Lemonite (edited 01-23-2002).]
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Old 01-23-2002, 07:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony:
What do you mean, sulawesigirl14?

Ant.
Oh, not a whole lot. Just thinking outloud. Random thoughts like...government spending boosting the economy...Keynesian economics...The Great Depression...World War II. See, told you it was sketchy. lol. Pay me no mind.
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Old 01-23-2002, 07:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lemonite:
There's actually a 4.5 billion five year project of aid to Afghanistan... In the First Year alone we're giving 296 Million to Afghanistan.

Ambassadors to Good Will, and Of What Can Be Done, We Truly Are!

Congrats America.

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[This message has been edited by Lemonite (edited 01-23-2002).]
I think the UN requested $15 billion over the next 5 years. Some countries, like the US, haven't yet committed anything beyond this year--I think the US isn't allowed to do so (?)

[This message has been edited by speedracer (edited 01-23-2002).]
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Old 01-23-2002, 09:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lemonite:
Thanks for the Stats Fizzing.. Always a treat to read.. Let's have a nice list of afghans who have shaved their beard, or women who have had multiple partners after the Taliban was roused out.. yes i did write rouse..

Anyways, It was written that 'We Have enough weapons to destroy the world seven times around'.. or something to that sort.. We're not just making more AK47's or more bombs.. We're in the process of developing a state of the art Defense system that may very likely one day save you, from having a Nuke warhead drop in your beer mug and shatter that nice little cup your kid made for you in first grade.. nevermind your entire body being burned in a fraction of a second..
... Not to mention the cost it takes to disarm our Nukes..

We also do not 'want to cause destruction' .. as was posted... fact is, War is sometimes the only option to make a point, get rid of a horrible situation.. I highly doubt that Bin Laden would be privy to chattin' around a cup of Fecical Latte at the nearest Starbucks... He'd probably be checking out all the scantily clad poem readers anyways..

Priorities you ask?.. Were you watching the news back in September.. Two planes smashed into two towers and terrorism killed 3000 people (Yes I realize.. a bad attempt at sarcasm) ... All of a sudden that's just going to be the priority... It's a shame that it was posted we are 'supposedly' fighting a war.. Here.. I'll send you two hundred dollars to ride the next plane hijacked into the ocean.. or maybe the one hit with the next missile fired by an F-16... Then you'll wish that we had disrupted terrorism in the world.

But it's not the only priority.. What has Bush been pushing with great force especially the past month and a half.. The Economy.. It's jsut that your liberal friends are blocking any attempt at actually helping the economy and helping get people back on their feet with things like 'more unemployment'.. But that's for another thread..

Like I wrote at the top of the post, I'm in the process of looking up more facts, but this thread is at the moment in its infancy I'll assume, with people dropping opinions...


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Old 01-23-2002, 09:54 PM   #14
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Here.. I'll send you two hundred dollars to ride the next plane hijacked into the ocean.. or maybe the one hit with the next missile fired by an F-16... Then you'll wish that we had disrupted terrorism in the world.
Was that not a bit uncalled for?

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Old 01-24-2002, 12:29 PM   #15
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Originally posted by Lemonite:
Priorities you ask?.. Were you watching the news back in September..
A missile shield, if in place, would not have prevented this. Here we are spending all this money on "technology," when the terrorists are fighting a low-tech war. $48 billion in new missiles and toys aren't going to prevent someone from going in and setting off a small tactical nuclear device ("dirty bomb") in the middle of Times Square. $48 billion in new missiles and toys aren't going to prevent someone from putting plastique in his shoe and trying to blow up a commercial airliner in the middle of the sky.

Bush himself even stated that this is a new kind of war, and, yet, we are playing it by the same old rules. This, my friends, is simply a placebo; that by throwing $48 billion into military spending, it looks like we are doing something. Amass enough arms and somehow it will go away on its own.

And, Lemonite, your posts are the most incoherent posts I have ever read. Our "liberal friends" are trying to help the economy, but they don't think that just handing out tax cuts for big business are going to help those who are unemployed, considering that 30 out of the Fortune 500 paid no taxes anyway. Didn't Bush hand out a $1.8 trillion tax cut before that? I trained monkey can hand out tax cuts; a president should have more ideas.

And, yet, Bush has been spending worse than a so-called "liberal." $100 billion for New York. A few hundred billion for the airline industries. $200 billion in new fighter jets. $48 billion in increased military spending. Add that to $1.8 trillion less to work with and a recession that will bring in less tax money, not to mention the costs of running the country domestically. Or did we forget that he is the President of the United States, rather than just the Commander-in-Chief? Considering that paying off Reagan's amassed debt takes up 13% of our yearly budget (yes, even the government has to pay it's debts sometime), I will hate to see how much Dubya's debt combined will cost us. I wouldn't be surprised if it will eventually take up 25% of our budget by the end. How fiscally conservative of him...

Melon

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