Mike Signorile's Open Letter to Mary Cheney

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I got news for ya Mike, Mary is entitled to hold what ever views she wants regardless of her family and background. I think Mike should find more relevant things to discuss than attempting to trash a single individual.
 
that tone is close to criminal

The tone of Mike's letter was borderline criminal. To say "we're coming for you" and to disparage the family member of a Vice President isn't a smart thing to do. Mike also went on to say to the daughter of the Vice President, "Mary, blood will be on your hands". It's safe to say that the Secret Service and FBI are onto this guy right now, and with the advent of the Patriot Act, anyone who threatens family members of elected officials can be fully investigated and wire-tapped, as they should be. I hope FBI special agents have wire-tapped his phone-lines and bugged his cars, this guy needs to be taught a lesson that you can't go around and say such things to family of elected officials. Thank god for the FBI, the most powerful branch of the Department of Justice, they don't fool around when it comes to people like this Mike character.
 
I understand some of what Signorile is saying, but this crosses over to defining what "right-thinking lesbians" should say and do.
 
Are these not valid points and questions?

It would be one thing if you had simply slithered away into the background when it was announced that your father would be Bush?s running mate in 2000. (People can?t, after all, pick their parents, as Patti Davis and Ron Reagan Jr. are painfully aware.) Instead, you became active in the Bush/Cheney campaign. As the lesbian poster child, you helped sell the snake oil of "compassionate conservatism." You went along with the program, tricking people into thinking that your father and W. would be tolerant on gay rights. Your father even said during the campaign that the whole issue of gay unions should be left to the states (though he told the Denver Post last week that he would now support an amendment to the Constitution that could very well strip gays of most legal rights, from domestic partnership benefits to adoption rights). As one of Dad?s political advisors, you helped bring in votes from moderate straights and gay Republicans.
The 25 percent of gay voters who cast a vote for Bush/Cheney?not to mention the moderates of all sexual orientations?would have made the difference in Florida and New Hampshire (as gays made up at least four percent of the electorate in both states), giving the election to Al Gore. I hear from the voters you misled every day via my website and radio program?gay Republicans and others who are infuriated with the president, with your father and with you, Mary.

And now you?ve joined the re-election campaign, just in time to hear the president and your father say that they would support a federal marriage amendment.

What is it like, I often wonder, to have your own father court the very religious zealots who believe your kind are emotionally disturbed child molesters? What does it feel like to have your own father empower people who, if they could have their way, would force you to go through "conversion therapy"? What is it like to know that your own family takes cash from people who think you?d be better off dead, and think you?re going straight to hell when that happens?

Those who defend you say that you must feel absolutely terrible. They surmise that maybe you actually left RUC in protest, realizing that change in the party wasn?t possible, thus washing your hands of the entire matter. For that reason, they say, you shouldn?t now be blamed for trying, nor held accountable for your father?s positions. But the fact that you went to work for the re-election campaign says otherwise.

So here?s my theory, and maybe you can confirm it for me: The gay marriage issue is splitting the Republican Party; Dad and his crowd have told you that they?ve got to appear to be supportive of a constitutional amendment at this point, while they?re still firing up the religious right base. Once they have that constituency nailed down and they enter the general election, they?ll move toward the middle; they?ll say that there?s no need for the amendment, as the Defense of Marriage Act takes care of it. You?ll then be hauled back out of the closet to help snatch those moderate and gay Republican voters.
 
Yes, those are valid points. To be gay and vote for Bush seems a little bit like self-hatred to me.
 
Re: that tone is close to criminal

U2LipstickBoy said:
The tone of Mike's letter was borderline criminal.

It's really not much different than the tone of what you write in this forum, is it not?

Melon
 
Mary Cheney is a fine American patriot

I'm not sure Melon, why don't you provide us with some sources and evidence. You're going to have to try a little bit harder than that Melon, put in a bit more effort. :yes:
 
Re: Mary Cheney is a fine American patriot

U2LipstickBoy said:
I'm not sure Melon, why don't you provide us with some sources and evidence. You're going to have to try a little bit harder than that Melon, put in a bit more effort. :yes:

There are many fine posters who have posted plenty of evidence of your blatant contradictions in other threads, including myself in a John Kerry thread here. The only reason why I think you're still here is because you are probably a moderator / admin troll. Oh well...if that's the case, I'll probably never find out.

Until then, I guess, people will just have to continue adding you to their "Ignore" lists.

Melon
 
joyfulgirl said:
Yes, those are valid points. To be gay and vote for Bush seems a little bit like self-hatred to me.

The Log Cabin Republicans, however, I will give some credit to. They have not merely sat back and supported Bush, in spite of this hate-motivated campaign.

I have no problem with Republicans. What I do have problems with is the extreme right GOP leadership and moderate Republicans who sit back and do nothing, while the Bush Administration actions continue to erode away any semblence of centrism that the GOP supposedly has. McCain is the biggest hypocrite of them all, having recently been in a voter drive to get people to vote for Bush in the general election. That's why the only good Republican is a defeated Republican, no matter how "moderate" they may be.

Melon
 
melon said:

McCain is the biggest hypocrite of them all, having recently been in a voter drive to get people to vote for Bush in the general election.

I am VERY disappointed to see him on TV and in NH campaining for the President.
 
Why dont we stick to the subject at hand, instead of trying to get a rise out of each other eh? :wink:
 
McCain campaigned for Bush in 2000 and I see nothing wrong with him campaigning for Bush in 2004. McCain wants Bush re-elected so I can't understand why its wrong for him to campagn for him.
 
McCain is a fine American, it's great to see him out supporting Bush and trying to uphold the sanctity of marriage.

McCain is now serving as co-chairman of Bush?s re-election campaign in Arizona.
"I am committed to do whatever I can to help the president?s re-election," McCain said.

Hopefully McCain might run for President in 2008, it would be great to see Jeb Bush as his Vice President running mate, let's keep this country moving in the right direction.
 
Interesting, I never imagined that it could be argued that Cheney's daughter delivered the election because of NH and Florida. I wonder how true these statements are in the article. Has anyone come across any kind of demographic breakdown for this type of statistic? The gay vote put Bush in office?

The tone of the letter really bothers me, and yes, I understand, this man feels his rights are under seige, but he is channeling it a one person. To lay it at her feet, is wrong. It is her father, and I cannot fault a child for supporting their parent in an election. Sorry.

Still, he makes an interesting case for how bush won the last election.
 
Re: Re: Mary Cheney is a fine American patriot

melon said:

The only reason why I think you're still here is because you are probably a moderator / admin troll. Oh well...if that's the case, I'll probably never find out.

Until then, I guess, people will just have to continue adding you to their "Ignore" lists.

Melon

So now it is one of us making these posts?
Easy on these accusations melon.
 
U2LipstickBoy:
God is allmighty so it would be easy for him to force us to do what we should do.
For a verry good reason God is pro choice, so everyone has decide on his own what he wants to do.
Why do you think it's good to force people to believe the same way like you do?
 
Re: Re: Re: Mary Cheney is a fine American patriot

Angela Harlem said:
So now it is one of us making these posts?
Easy on these accusations melon.

Don't worry. No more accusations. I wash my hands of it.

Melon
 
Frankly, the tone of his article is almost as nasty as some of the homophobic articles I've read recently. He might passionately disagree with Mary Cheney and feel that she's betraying the gay community, but he should be able to articulate that without resorting to such hateful comments.
 
You (and others) have a point, Fizzing, but gays in this country have a right to be very angry. They have been pushed to this point. I personally wouldn't mind seeing more angry gays speaking out --and you're right, that can be done without hate. Maybe Mary Cheney is an odd target but if she's going to campaign publicly for Bush/Cheney then she should be able to take the flack because it always gets nasty election time. Anyone choosing that public role for themselves should be able to take the flack, for that matter.
 
Oh I absolutely agree that gay people have a right to be angry, especially with regard to the actions of the current administration and I'd definitely like to see more people speaking out publicly on that subject. I just think that Mary Cheney has probably had more than her share of nasty hateful comments (exactly how tolerant do we think the right-wing of the Republican party are towards lesbians? :rolleyes: ) and doesn't really need to hear that she's a "fiendish, nasty example of a human being." On the other hand, I suppose you could argue (as the author does) that her relatively privileged position means that she probably experiences less prejudice on a day-to-day basis than your average gay person.

I personally wouldn't care if she were campaigning for the Republican party on any issue other than gay rights, but given that party's record on gay rights, I do find it hard to accept that someone who's gay could in good conscience campaign for Republicans because of their position on gay rights.

In short, I agree with the sentiments expressed by the author, I just think he could have expressed himself without resorting to vicious personal insults. :down:
 
FizzingWhizzbees said:
Frankly, the tone of his article is almost as nasty as some of the homophobic articles I've read recently.

You mean, like this one?

Pope Blasts Media For Making Gays Look 'Normal'
by Malcolm Thornberry

Posted: January 25, 2004 12:01 a.m. ET

(Rome) Pope John Paul II accused the media Saturday of glamorizing homosexuality and desensitizing the public about abortion.

In a statement to mark the lead up to the Church's World Communications Day the pontiff said the media was not doing enough to promote traditional family life.

"All communication has a moral dimension," his statement said. "People grow or diminish in moral stature by the words which they speak and the messages which they choose to hear."

"Infidelity, sexual activity outside of marriage, and the absence of a moral and spiritual vision of the marriage covenant are depicted uncritically, while positive support is at times given to divorce, contraception, abortion and homosexuality. Such portrayals, by promoting causes inimical to marriage and the family, are detrimental to the common good of society," the papal statement said.

He urged professional communicators to recognize their "moral responsibility" and to exercise "wisdom, good judgment and fairness in their presentation of issues involving sexuality, marriage and family life".

And he said if he media does not exercise "restraint" the state should step in. The pontifical statement called for regulations to stop the media from acting against "the good of the family," although it said the pope rejected outright censorship.

------------------------------------------

I love how a sexist, autocratic organization can make such comments with a straight face. Maybe it's time the media started telling the truth about Catholicism.

Sad to say, I've grown ashamed to have once been Catholic, and I can thank this bitter old man for showing me the truth about how delusional this religion is.

Melon
 
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joyfulgirl: If everybody would be angry who think that he has the right to be angry we would have violnece and war all over.

If you want to be better then the other you should behave better. If you don't want to be better behaving than your oponent, don't complain about the way he treats you.

Klaus
 
LOL

Melon is now questioning the moral authority of the Pope and calling it delusional, this should be interesting to see :huh:

2003 was the year that the Pope and Bono were both nominated to win the Nobel Prize.

"the Pope gave usmore support than we expected." said by Bono

"the Pope's courage amazes me," Bono said
 
melon said:
You mean, like this one?

I didn't actually have any particular article in mind, but that one fits the bill pretty well. I'm still waiting for someone to explain exactly why homosexuality is "detrimental to the common good of society."

LipstickBoy,
Just because Bono expressed appreciation for the Pope's comments in the past doesn't mean that he approves of his position on every issue. Without trying to predict Bono's opinions, I doubt that he would express support for the Pope's condemnation of homosexuality.
 
I wish the Catholic Church would change its tune on the issue, it should be more inclusive. Oh, well. Now we know why Shirin Ebadi got the Nobel Peace Prize, not the Pope.
 
Melon: There are individuals in this forum ("delusional," "sexist," and "autocratic" though they may be) who are still Catholic. I urge you to show a bit more respect for a faith that has also done a lot of good in the world; names like Oscar Romero, Desmond Tutu, and Dorothy Day still mean something to you, don't they?
 
Klaus said:
joyfulgirl: If everybody would be angry who think that he has the right to be angry we would have violnece and war all over.

If you want to be better then the other you should behave better. If you don't want to be better behaving than your oponent, don't complain about the way he treats you.

Klaus

I said I wish more angry gays would speak out not become violent. Blacks had a right to be angry and they were, and under the peaceful leadership of MLK they took to the streets. That's what I'm talking about. Who said anything about violence and war with regard to gay rights? When any group of people is oppressed, their anger is justified, and that anger can be used constructively to further their cause--and unfortunately, in some cases, violence may occur in small percentage. I'm not saying Mike Signorile is a great example, but if you're gay and publicly support a campaign that has a blatant anti-gay agenda, you really need to be able to take the heat, especially from other gays. I know a gay man from another forum who was just killed in Miami a couple of weeks ago in a gay hate crime. Don't tell me gays don't have the right to be angry.
 
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