Mike Signorile's Open Letter to Mary Cheney

[joyfulgirl]

In short, I agree with the sentiments expressed by the author, I just think he could have expressed himself without resorting to vicious personal insults.

We don't disagree. I don't even know this guy; I've never listened to his show or even heard of him. For all I know, he could be to gays what Rush Limbaugh is (was?) to conservatives. And I certainly don't think Signorile speaks for all gays.

 

[sue4u2]

"Infidelity, sexual activity outside of marriage, and the absence of a moral and spiritual vision of the marriage covenant are depicted uncritically, while positive support is at times given to divorce, contraception, abortion and homosexuality.

With all due respect to the Pope, if Infidelity and sexual activity were eliminated by marriage and family values, what would then be are argument aganinst gay marriges. I mean when you think about it they just want to be united in love as eveyone else and have the same rights legally- as married couples. And being married and having families never stopped infidelity OR sexual activity outside marriage even in cases of spiritual vision it didn't make alot of difference to some.
(not speaking for all marriages, however)

edited to say: that was an interesting article Melon.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

With all due respect to the Pope, if Infidelity and sexual activity were eliminated by marriage and family values, what would then be are argument aganinst gay marriges. I mean when you think about it they just want to be united in love as eveyone else and have the same rights legally- as married couples.

Their argument would no doubt remain the same. They don't just think being gay is wrong because gay people have sex outside of marriage (because they can't actually get married). They just think there's something intrinsically wrong with being gay. All the rubbish they spout about "family values" and "the common good of society" is a cover up for the fact that they hate gay people.

And yes, I realise that I'm probably going to get flamed for that statement, but frankly I've not heard one serious argument for why gay people are such a threat to the "common good" so until one is produced I'm going to assume that those who use that argument are merely covering up the fact that they can't stand gay people.

</rant>

 

[verte76]

You're right Fizz. They just think *something* is wrong with being gay. They haven't come out with anything concrete about the harm being done to the "common good". It's nonsense.

 

[Dreadsox]

Melon: There are individuals in this forum ("delusional," "sexist," and "autocratic" though they may be) who are still Catholic. I urge you to show a bit more respect for a faith that has also done a lot of good in the world; names like Oscar Romero, Desmond Tutu, and Dorothy Day still mean something to you, don't they?

If only that were extended towards Republicans in this forum. But no, we can time any old crap and make any generalization about any born again christian or "faith based" republican we want without any fear in here. And we do have some in this forum who are born again republicans in this forum, and we continue to make generalizations that certainly do nothing to make them welcome in this forum.


But I digress. Republicans are just really "gay hating" people. They have never done anything good for anyone.(SARCASM)

There are good people everywhere. They may happen to be Catholic, just as they may happen to be republican, democrat, or a member of U2. That does not define the entire group of people. You do have to admit that when Cardinals come out and say things like this, it is not cool.

[Q]Cardinal: Most Gays 'Perverts'

COMBINED NEWS SERVICES

January 25, 2004


Brussels - A new Roman Catholic cardinal has raised a storm in Belgium - and division within its Catholic hierarchy - by declaring that at least 90 percent of lesbians and gays were "sexual perverts."

Gays and lesbians protested the remarks, and Belgium's Archbishop Godfried Danneels, seen as a possible successor to Pope John Paul II, distanced himself from the comments.

But Cardinal Gustaaf Joos, a parish priest elevated in October by the pope, has stuck to his declaration, saying he simply would not open his door to those who protest it.

"I simply say what thousands of people think," he told Belgium's VRT television.

What he said was this: "I am willing to write in my own blood that of all those who call themselves lesbian or gay, a maximum of 5 to 10 percent are effectively lesbian or gay. All the rest are just sexual perverts," he told the Flemish weekly P-Magazine.

Joos, 80, said he distinguishes between condemning homosexuality and homosexuals. "Real homosexuals don't wander the streets in colorful suits," he said. "Those are people who have a serious problem and have to live with that. And if they make a mistake they will be forgiven. We have to help these people and not judge them."

Belgium, a mainly Roman Catholic country of 10 million, legalized gay marriages last year and is moving toward granting same-sex couples the right to adopt children.

It is not only homosexuals that exercise the cardinal. Asked about the merits of democracy, he said, "Politics, democracy. Don't make me laugh.

"The right to vote, what is that all about? I think it is curious a snot-nosed, 18-year-old has the same vote as a father of seven. One has no responsibilities whatsoever, the other provides tomorrow's citizens."[/Q]

 

[Dreadsox]

And for all the bashing ot the right-wing treatment of gays....

I recall the Dean fundraisers treatment of Ms. Cheney.

She is a target PERIOD.

 

[verte76]

And for all the bashing ot the right-wing treatment of gays....

I recall the Dean fundraisers treatment of Ms. Cheney.

She is a target PERIOD.

I remember that. It was ugly.

 

[pax]

Memo to Mike Signorile: A picture is worth a thousand words.

http://www.hatecrime.org/mary4sale.jpg

 

[nbcrusader]

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

If only that were extended towards Republicans in this forum. But no, we can time any old crap and make any generalization about any born again christian or "faith based" republican we want without any fear in here. And we do have some in this forum who are born again republicans in this forum, and we continue to make generalizations that certainly do nothing to make them welcome in this forum.


But I digress. Republicans are just really "gay hating" people. They have never done anything good for anyone.(SARCASM)

Based on comments in another thread here, I'm wondering if these comments were in response to my contribution to this thread.

For what it's worth, I didn't actually mention "Republicans" "born again Christians" or "faith based Republicans" in my post and was responding to a post in which the Pope was quoted as opposing homosexuality. (To my knowledge the Pope isn't a card-carrying Republican. )

 

[Dreadsox]

Lets say I was referring to you, I strongly urge you to read all of your posts in this thread....I am pretty sure you make some nice comments about Republicans.

I am curious though,,,,I never mention you....strange that you think I was referring to you.

But I am just a 4th grade teacher...maybe I misunderstood what you were saying. I am a simple person, simple minded....

My comments are an observation of this place in general.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Lets say I was referring to you, I strongly urge you to read all of your posts in this thread....I am pretty sure you make some nice comments about Republicans.

I am curious though,,,,I never mention you....strange that you think I was referring to you.

But I am just a 4th grade teacher...maybe I misunderstood what you were saying. I am a simple person, simple minded....

In this thread, in reference to the Republican party, I said...

exactly how tolerant do we think the right-wing of the Republican party are towards lesbians?

That's hardly unreasonable, is it? I mean the right-wing of the Republican party (as distinct from the Republican party as a whole) aren't exactly known for their open-mindedness with regard to homosexuality.

given that party's [the Republican party] record on gay rights

If you ask me, opposing hate crime legislation, opposing partnership rights for gay couples, opposing gay marriage and from some members of the Republican party comments describing gay people as "deviant" or "perverted" don't suggest that party has a progressive position on gay rights.

That's the only time I made reference to the Republican party, and I absolutely stand behind my comments because I do not believe the Republican party has a record to be proud of on gay rights.

As I said before, my last post in this thread made no reference to Republicans, to right-wing politicians, to "faith-based" Republicans or to any other political grouping.

And I really am still waiting to hear why certain groups or individuals believe that gay people are a "threat to the common good" or "bad for society." Given that I've never heard one single coherent argument to this effect I hardly think it's unreasonable to suspect that a level of homophobia is what motivates such comments.

 

[Dreadsox]

Please....define who embodies the "right wing" of the republican party. Who are these people?