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Old 11-02-2001, 02:56 AM   #1
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Mikal-look what i found

Since you said all you could end up with from smoking too much marijuana was "being a little lazy", i found a book, written by a doctor. It generally talks about girl's growing up, and one of the topics are drugs.

So, here's a translation:
"Taking any kind of drugs on a regular basis can cause any/or all of the following diseases and conditions:
throwing up, impotence, the opposite of dhiarrhea (what's the word for that in English?), cease of women's period, liver damage, various blood diseases, muscle decay, mental problems, deadly jauntice and AIDS."

A bit later, some more on marijuana: "It causes the feeling of "being drunk" and "happy", but a person often loses the sense of space and time. It can cause strange behaviour, thus causing severe accidents. Also possible, the feeling of paranoia."

How mild, eh? *sarcastic*
So much for your "being a little lazy" (if that's all you felt, fine. just don't say that's all one can end up with when it comes to marijuana).

ps: I didn't turn anything from friendly to sour. That debate had no chance of being friendly from the start. We're both responsible for the way it turned.

Also, it's weird how you went from "it's a good thing you never tried marijuana" to "maybe you should try some to help you chill". How consistent.

pps: it's even more weird, after comments like "you didn't try it out, so don't talk" or "you should stay out of this" to "you always want to have the last word on things", you are surprised when i "get defensive". Do you have a better idea how to react on things like that?

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"It's about finding your way into the music." - Edge

"Something inside said this could be everything in your life." - Bono

"U2 as a band does things no one else can do. I think that is a very powerful thing." - Larry

"Adam believed in the band before anyone did." - Bono



[This message has been edited by U2girl (edited 11-02-2001).]
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Old 11-02-2001, 04:11 AM   #2
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U2girl, I mean this in the nicest way possible and please don't take it as patronizing - I honestly don't mean it in that way at all.

Remember how in previous threads where we've argued you've come to realize that maybe you were defending your point too strongly, to the point that you were not listening to the other side? This is one of those times. Believe me, I don't want to get in another argument with you, but you are in over your head on this one.

Just because marijuana is a drug, doesn't mean you can lump it in with all other drugs and apply the traits from the worst drugs to marijuana.

For instance, your assertion that drugs lead to increase in crime is faulty and doesn't really apply here. Sure, some people may resort to crime in order to get money for drugs, but lots of people resort to crime in order to get money for shoes, or money for food, or money to blow on strippers...and as marijuana is one of the least addictive drugs out there, this drug=crime thing just doesn't hold up in this argument.

In regards to your article, regular marijuana use does not lead to throwing up, constipation, ceasing of a woman's period, liver damage, mental problems, blood diseases, muscle decay, deadly jaundice or AIDS. Excessive use might lead to a few of these symptoms (but certainly not all or even the majority of them), but not regular use by people who generally take good care of themselves.

However, the way you are arguing makes it seem like you are applying these traits to marijuana. This is quite simply faulty debating. It's like saying that portobello mushrooms shouldn't be eaten because some mushrooms can kill you (ok, that's not an entirely accurate analogy since portobello mushrooms [relatively]have no adverse affects on your health, but you get the idea).

As for the doctor talking about the effects of marijuana, for this doctor to say that strange behaviour automatically leads to severe accidents is very careless and misleading. It may lead to severe accidents, but the same could be said of taking your eyes off the road while driving. Strange behavior does not equal severe accidents.

Now, I don't smoke pot (it's just not for me, but I can respect other people's opinions on it), but I have friends who do, and the vast majority of people I know who do smoke pot tend to do it in the privacy of their own homes and mainly to unwind and relax. Does this mean that all people do this? Of course not. There will always be jackasses who might think it's a good idea to get really high and go out driving, but then, there are jackasses who think it's a good idea to drive 30mph over the speed limit in a school zone. Marijuana or no, stupid people still exist.

Anyway, sorry if I'm getting a little off track, but let me just get down to the main point. Quoting articles that give vast generalizations does not really give you much solid ground in this argument. The fact of the matter is that you really don't know what the effects of marijuana are, and you're basing your argument over generalizations of drugs in general, in which marijuana is overwhelmingly less dangerous and hazardous to your health. If you're a pothead who smokes 24/7, then you're definitely not doing your body a favor, but doing almost anything to excess is detrimental to your body.

I know you're not meaning to just come across as a sore thumb and you just want to present the other side of the story, but you're position isn't backed up with enough relevant evidence and experience to make it a valid argument. No offense meant, but your viewpoint is very naive and narrow on this subject. There are plenty of articles out there that say drugs are bad and that smoking marijuana may lead to strange behavior, but that doesn't really add much to the argument.

[This message has been edited by Diemen (edited 11-02-2001).]
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Old 11-02-2001, 06:13 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen:
U2girl, I mean this in the nicest way possible and please don't take it as patronizing - I honestly don't mean it in that way at all.

For instance, your assertion that drugs lead to increase in crime is faulty and doesn't really apply here. Sure, some people may resort to crime in order to get money for drugs, but lots of people resort to crime in order to get money for shoes, or money for food, or money to blow on strippers...and as marijuana is one of the least addictive drugs out there, this drug=crime thing just doesn't hold up in this argument.

In regards to your article, regular marijuana use does not lead to throwing up, constipation, ceasing of a woman's period, liver damage, mental problems, blood diseases, muscle decay, deadly jaundice or AIDS. Excessive use might lead to a few of these symptoms (but certainly not all or even the majority of them), but not regular use by people who generally take good care of themselves.

As for the doctor talking about the effects of marijuana, for this doctor to say that strange behaviour automatically leads to severe accidents is very careless and misleading. It may lead to severe accidents, but the same could be said of taking your eyes off the road while driving. Strange behavior does not equal severe accidents.

Now, I don't smoke pot (it's just not for me, but I can respect other people's opinions on it), but I have friends who do, and the vast majority of people I know who do smoke pot tend to do it in the privacy of their own homes and mainly to unwind and relax. Does this mean that all people do this? Of course not. There will always be jackasses who might think it's a good idea to get really high and go out driving, but then, there are jackasses who think it's a good idea to drive 30mph over the speed limit in a school zone. Marijuana or no, stupid people still exist.

[This message has been edited by Diemen (edited 11-02-2001).]
Right...not patronising at all.

I WAS talking about the people who venture into crime due to addiction. Of course, i wasn't saying everyone who uses drugs goes into that. But some do.

If you look at the quote from the book-it says drugs CAN cause those symptoms. It does not necessarily happen.
I think the "causing accidents" referred to those who, for example, decide to drive under the influence of drugs.

And of course, there's a difference between those who light it up occasionally or excessive users. Those are the people i'm talking about.

What's the point of talking about previous threads?
Who's generalizing on drugs?!? I know there are worse drugs than marijuana, but i don't believe it's all that innocent like Mikal says.

Like i said before, marijuana CAN be bad for you. If that's naive and narrow, fine. If that's how you want to label my opinion, go ahead.
And i'm just saying drugs appal and scare me. If that's naive to you, fine.

ps: Will you knock it off with the "you have no experience" stuff already?
What experience? I don't need to use a drug to know it's not good for me. There's plenty of written, proven evidence for that.
And i definitely am not one of those people who think "that was just the worst case scenario, i won't get all those symptoms".
First, i don't want to push my luck and "hope for the best", and second, i don't really care which of the symptoms should happen if i was to try a drug-even if it's "just" the hallucinations. That's bad enough for me.


------------------
"It's about finding your way into the music." - Edge

"Something inside said this could be everything in your life." - Bono

"U2 as a band does things no one else can do. I think that is a very powerful thing." - Larry

"Adam believed in the band before anyone did." - Bono



[This message has been edited by U2girl (edited 11-02-2001).]
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Old 11-02-2001, 08:26 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen:
There are plenty of articles out there that say drugs are bad and that smoking marijuana may lead to strange behavior, but that doesn't really add much to the argument.

[This message has been edited by Diemen (edited 11-02-2001).]
So-don't you think there's a reason why those exist? Don't you think what they're saying is based on facts?

That DOES add to the argument.

ps: You know what, Mikal? Just forget i said anything. Go ahead, do what you want with yourself, just don't expect me to clap along or agree with it.

pps: Ahhh! Constipation it is! I just couldn't remember it. Thanks.




[This message has been edited by U2girl (edited 11-02-2001).]
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Old 11-02-2001, 10:20 AM   #5
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u2girl,

You are once again trolling. The other thread was closed for a reason.

I'm not even gonna argue with you any more because I have better things to do with my free time. I just hope you realize that your little attacks on me this morning does not impress me or anyone else here. Your posts are juvenile, and maybe that's giving you too much credit.

This is the last you will hear from me on this matter. I wouldn't want to be forced to stoop to your level.

Now proceed with turning all of my words around and getting your last word in so you can look cool.

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Old 11-02-2001, 11:13 AM   #6
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U2girl, I'm sorry, but you're hopeless. I honestly wasn't trying to start an argument, but you of course have to take it that way and fight back. I perfectly understand mikals "maybe you should try some" comment.

I completely understand and sympathize with that position - I've never smoked marijuana and probably never will. We all know you don't need to use a drug to know it's bad for you - but quit arguing about a drug by only using generalizations that don't necessarily pertain to that drug - it's a very weak position when you can't bring in information specific to the argument. All this time you've been rattling on about the bad effect of drugs in general, and yet this topic is only about marijuana. And you're one little paragraph from the good doctor doesn't really prove anything.

And I know you were talking about people who venture into crime due to addiction, but it really doesn't bear much relevance to this issue.

What you're doing is basically presenting the worst case scenario for everything. It's not all that sound of an argument, because you don't really know what happens to the majority of people, or how often that worst case scenario takes place.

Worst case scenario for people who eat too much=they get fat and die
Worst case scenario for people who diet too much=they lose too much weight and die from lack of nutrition
Worst case scenario for excessive drug users=they mess up their body and die.

See how little room that leaves you to actually be flexible in your argument?

And that's your problem. You allow absolutely no room for flexibility. If anybody says anything that goes even slightly against what you're saying, you lash back at them. And then maybe 2 pages later you FINALLY realize that maybe you were a bit too stubborn in the first few.

You really are doing a form of trolling. Threads close because of your unwillingness to listen to anything the other side says, and yet you keep going and keep trying to prove your point, only to concede later on anyway - it's happened practically every time you've gotten into a heated argument. Perhaps it's because english is not your first language and you don't get some of the subtleties - I hope (but doubt) that's the case since you seem to have a good grasp of the english language - but you really need to learn to be more accepting of other people's arguments, especially when they're coming from a more educated and experienced background on that particular subject.

But anyway, I don't why I'm bothering to say all this. Lord knows you'll just lash back with little one sentence retorts that don't really prove anything and just repeat what you were saying before...
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Old 11-02-2001, 02:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen:
U2girl, I'm sorry, but you're hopeless. I honestly wasn't trying to start an argument, but you of course have to take it that way and fight back. I perfectly understand mikals "maybe you should try some" comment.

I completely understand and sympathize with that position - I've never smoked marijuana and probably never will. We all know you don't need to use a drug to know it's bad for you - but quit arguing about a drug by only using generalizations that don't necessarily pertain to that drug - it's a very weak position when you can't bring in information specific to the argument. All this time you've been rattling on about the bad effect of drugs in general, and yet this topic is only about marijuana. And you're one little paragraph from the good doctor doesn't really prove anything.

And I know you were talking about people who venture into crime due to addiction, but it really doesn't bear much relevance to this issue.

What you're doing is basically presenting the worst case scenario for everything. It's not all that sound of an argument, because you don't really know what happens to the majority of people, or how often that worst case scenario takes place.

Worst case scenario for people who eat too much=they get fat and die
Worst case scenario for people who diet too much=they lose too much weight and die from lack of nutrition
Worst case scenario for excessive drug users=they mess up their body and die.

See how little room that leaves you to actually be flexible in your argument?

And that's your problem. You allow absolutely no room for flexibility. If anybody says anything that goes even slightly against what you're saying, you lash back at them. And then maybe 2 pages later you FINALLY realize that maybe you were a bit too stubborn in the first few.

You really are doing a form of trolling. Threads close because of your unwillingness to listen to anything the other side says, and yet you keep going and keep trying to prove your point, only to concede later on anyway - it's happened practically every time you've gotten into a heated argument. Perhaps it's because english is not your first language and you don't get some of the subtleties - I hope (but doubt) that's the case since you seem to have a good grasp of the english language - but you really need to learn to be more accepting of other people's arguments, especially when they're coming from a more educated and experienced background on that particular subject.

But anyway, I don't why I'm bothering to say all this. Lord knows you'll just lash back with little one sentence retorts that don't really prove anything and just repeat what you were saying before...


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Old 11-02-2001, 02:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen:

Lord knows you'll just lash back with little one sentence retorts that don't really prove anything and just repeat what you were saying before...
Not really.

No need for jumping conclusions, i am through talking about the drug subject-i said everything i had to say in the previous posts, which incidentally answer your last post too.

Mikal, i wasn't attacking you. I am only disagreeing with you on the subject in question.

And, whatever you may think of me, don't say my posts are juvenile. Let's keep things like that out of debates like this.

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"It's about finding your way into the music." - Edge

"Something inside said this could be everything in your life." - Bono

"U2 as a band does things no one else can do. I think that is a very powerful thing." - Larry

"Adam believed in the band before anyone did." - Bono
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