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Old 08-10-2006, 03:34 AM   #31
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So you feel that there is no possibility, no chance whatsoever, that there exists within every human a soul? I just want to know what leads you to conclude this. Is it because we can't see the soul? Or that there is no way to test the possibility of a soul existing? Im just wondering.
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Old 08-10-2006, 03:38 AM   #32
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There is a possibility in that anything may be possible, but the margin that there is a soul is at the moment impossibly small. The concequence of this is that we are still sentient animals with intelligence and communication skills and we should try to maintain a society that is best for the most people and diviersity.

In the absence of a soul it doesn't diminish the importance of empathy, which is an important human emotion/behaviour.
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Old 08-10-2006, 03:41 AM   #33
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But why is the possibility so small? I agree that anything is possible. I accept the fact that it is possible we don't have a soul, and that there is no God that exists. But what reasons do we have that would lead us to know the possibility of us having a soul is so miniscule?
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Old 08-10-2006, 04:24 AM   #34
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Our universe is made up of matter and energy (which themselves are interchangable), human beings are made up of molecules and the sum of their interactions are the walking and taking human, our conciousness resides in our brains which are real, composed of matter and have mass. If our souls truly leave the body and they interact in the universe and hold interacting information then we should be able to measure it leaving. Such a process has never been observed and there is no reason to suppose it should.

The probabilty that our understanding of matter and the universe is so fundamentally wrong and that all the evidence that we have amassed to that effect is really null is low with our current comprehension thus the idea of a unique human soul should not really ilicit consideration as a genuine thing unless the evidence swings around and a falsifiable theory is presented and accepted that demonstrates it's plausible existence.
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Old 08-10-2006, 04:40 AM   #35
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Yes, if our souls leave the body and remain in this universe, then we may be able to measure this process, however, what if they don't interact with this universe? Also, how do we know that we would be able to measure or identify this process? We don't know that for sure at all. Just because it cannot be observed or measured, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

You say that unless we have evidence for human souls, then we shouldn't give any consideration to their existence ... well I can say that unless you are able to prove that human souls don't exist, then we must assume that they may exist.

This argument just circles ... my point, however, is that we must admit there is a 'good' possibility that we do have souls. As this cannot be proven true or false, there is an equal chance that souls do and don't exist.
It is important to remember that just because something is not visible, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
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Old 08-10-2006, 04:58 AM   #36
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Where does the energy in a human body go when it dies?
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Old 08-10-2006, 05:01 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
thus the idea of a unique human soul should not really ilicit consideration as a genuine thing unless the evidence swings around and a falsifiable theory is presented and accepted that demonstrates it's plausible existence.
What about all the dark matter in space?
Is that matter or energy and how do you measure it?
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Old 08-10-2006, 05:28 AM   #38
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Dark matter is postulated because rotation of galaxies is inconsistent with the ammount of visible matter, it is a hypothetical matter particle but it would have gravitational attraction - it was invented to solve a problem in cosmology; dark matter may not exist and our understanding of gravitation may be completely wrong (and given that science is a progressive system of knowledge that is a good thing).

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Where does the energy in a human body go when it dies?
Metabolic reactions cease, cells stop making ATP and whatever heat was in our bodies will just radiate out in the same way that a pie cools to room temperature when you take it out of the oven, energy is not a spiritual essence.
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Old 08-10-2006, 10:33 AM   #39
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I'm always so sad by the fact that whenever questions like 'do others things exist than just us', for example if souls exist, as questioned here, science takes a big part. I know science has a big influence on our world, and we know that we have had a lot of good things from it, but science isn't all...

I believe that there are other things, more things between heaven and earth than meets the eye. So I keep believing that, and that's all I wanted to say...

Carry on with the thread.
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Old 08-10-2006, 10:45 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by netminder0
Yes, if our souls leave the body and remain in this universe, then we may be able to measure this process, however, what if they don't interact with this universe? Also, how do we know that we would be able to measure or identify this process? We don't know that for sure at all. Just because it cannot be observed or measured, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

You say that unless we have evidence for human souls, then we shouldn't give any consideration to their existence ... well I can say that unless you are able to prove that human souls don't exist, then we must assume that they may exist.

This argument just circles ... my point, however, is that we must admit there is a 'good' possibility that we do have souls. As this cannot be proven true or false, there is an equal chance that souls do and don't exist.
It is important to remember that just because something is not visible, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
A_wanderer has provided ample information reinforcing the logical conclusion based on empirical evidendce as to why a soul doesn't exist, perhaps you should give us some evidence as to why you believe a soul DOES exist. Bearing in mind what you have told us thus far is totally applicable to the complex neurochemical reactions of a human creating a subterfuge of a soul and experiences of a God.
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Old 08-10-2006, 11:17 AM   #41
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I'd also like to ask people who believe in a soul a question or two: Why? Is it because you inherently feel that there's a soul? Is it because you think there's "gotta be more to life than just this existence,", i.e. there's gotta be a soul that lives forever in some other form? Is it because you have a belief in a God and a belief in a soul, then, goes hand in hand? Can you have a belief in God and also not believe in an afterlife or a concept of a soul?

Just wondering...
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Old 08-10-2006, 11:37 AM   #42
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Originally posted by netminder0
See ... this is partly what I meant by being "mature" in this discussion. I said my parents "claimed" to be Christian, because I don't know if they truly are or not.
I'm not sure why "maturity" is being questioned here with my statment.

But it isn't your right or within your power to know, that's why it came off so, and that's why this discussion was doomed from the beginning.
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Old 08-10-2006, 01:36 PM   #43
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Well BonoVox, we'll see just how doomed this conversation ends up. I think A_Wanderer and I are having a pretty decent conversation ... without anyone flaming or anything. And a few others are chirping in at times too which is cool. So we will just have to wait and see. Anyways ... I'm just going to move on.

A_Wanderer, I just want to agree that I don't think energy is a spiritual essence either. I think that the spirit/soul is something of an entirely different realm ... the spiritual realm, and I think this is why we cannot detect it in any way.
Aussie, there has been no evidence stated yet as to why the soul does not exist. Only the fact that we cannot detect it, which is no proof at all.

The reason that I believe in a soul may not seem very convincing to others, but it makes all the sense in the world if you truly are open to the fact that the human soul could exist.

The Bible says that we have a soul. It says that there is existence beyond this lifetime. The reason I believe? It was all written about in a historical document thousands of years ago.
Now believing the Bible is somewhat of a process ... but we must approach it and its claims as we would any other historical document.
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Old 08-10-2006, 01:40 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by netminder0
The Bible says that we have a soul.
I'm curious. Where exactly does it say this?
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Old 08-10-2006, 01:58 PM   #45
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The soul/spirit is what lives on after our physical bodies die. So any reference to life beyond this one is speaking of us all possessing this eternal element to our lives. Jesus Himself said on the cross, "Father, 'into Your hands I commit My spirit.'" - Luke 23:46.

There are other spots as well, but I would have to find them.
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