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Old 10-27-2005, 05:05 PM   #46
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Which secular morality would you like to argue from? It seems that the shifting sands of secular morality have no basis beyond what we deem appropriate to the time.
Shucks I dunno. I'm not really an intellectual

But I would counter that religious dogma shifts also.
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Old 10-27-2005, 05:07 PM   #47
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also, i guarantee you that there are people on this board who have had abortions. saying that they have killed their child is deeply offensive. the least someone so adamantly for making abortion illegal can do is to offer sympathy and understanding for someone who has been faced with such an awful choice.

Statistically it's a near certainty. I agree, people should be careful in the language they use.
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Old 10-27-2005, 05:11 PM   #48
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i am not looking for a right answer, just looking for some imaginative, thoughtful, and hopefully empathetic responses.
Irvine, I always admire your empathetic and human approach to these questions. (At least until it gets heated -- then people start ducking.)
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Old 10-27-2005, 05:12 PM   #49
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Shucks I dunno. I'm not really an intellectual

But I would counter that religious dogma shifts also.
Absolutely. But at least there's something concrete to hang the dogma on, as opposed to veering towards something that runs the risk of changing with the wind.
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Old 10-27-2005, 05:14 PM   #50
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Absolutely. But at least there's something concrete to hang the dogma on, as opposed to veering towards something that runs the risk of changing with the wind.


could secular humanism and a belief in the human thought process, i.e. the ability of all societies to work out their own set of ethics, perhaps create as much of a "core" or "center" as traditional notions of religion?
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Old 10-27-2005, 05:18 PM   #51
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Originally posted by Irvine511
could secular humanism and a belief in the human thought process, i.e. the ability of all societies to work out their own set of ethics, perhaps create as much of a "core" or "center" as traditional notions of religion?
Has it so far in human history?
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Old 10-27-2005, 05:30 PM   #52
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Has it so far in human history?


most western democracies are founded by secular documents that while they might acknoweldge a belief in a creator, the empahsis is clearly humanist.

also, is human history something we should be proud of?
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Old 10-28-2005, 07:47 AM   #53
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Abortion's aftermath is largely ignored by the general public. Groups organized to protect the availability of abortion claim that abortion is no different from any surgical procedure and that pro-life groups are fabricating the existence of post-abortion suffering. Consequently, many women think that their grief reactions are somehow abnormal and believe that there is nowhere to turn for help.
On this subject, a report has just been published which finds no evidence for the claim that women who have had an abortion are more likely to suffer from mental health problems.

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Researchers can find "no credible evidence" to support the idea that termination poses a threat to a woman's mental health. Indeed, women who do not have an abortion are more likely to have had less education and income and come from larger families, all risk factors for depression.
Full article can be found here
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Old 10-28-2005, 10:43 AM   #54
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http://harrietmiers.blogspot.com/

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Old 10-30-2005, 09:54 AM   #55
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Has it so far in human history?
Thank you.
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Old 10-30-2005, 10:07 AM   #56
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


On this subject, a report has just been published which finds no evidence for the claim that women who have had an abortion are more likely to suffer from mental health problems.



Full article can be found here
Not everyone has a conscience.
I'll rephrase that---
Not everyone is able to allow themselves to have a consience/feelings for whatever reasons, be it disconnection, abuse, lack of support, etc.
You have to "turn yourself off" to undergo an abortion, to face what you are doing, which is ending the life process of a human. 'Born' humans are just further along in that development.
And I don't think you have to be religious to acknowledge that.
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Old 10-30-2005, 11:43 AM   #57
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Originally posted by nathan1977
Absolutely. But at least there's something concrete to hang the dogma on, as opposed to veering towards something that runs the risk of changing with the wind.
Religion certainly changes with the wind too. It's all a matter as to what to selectively enforce in the Bible. In the 1920s, it was "greed morality"--that is, "I'm rich, because God loves me, and you're poor, because you're an evil sinner." In the Great Depression, it was social activism, since "greed morality" no longer applied to an entire nation in poverty. Canadian socialized medicine came from the ideas of a Baptist minister. Today's "Baptist ministers" are now apt to declare such institutions as "evil."

Nowadays, it's a combination of "greed morality" and good old fashioned 19th century apocalypticism. That is, "the world is going to shit and we're all going to die."

"Secular humanism" as a philosophy is fairly unchanging, actually. Most people just have a scant idea of what philosophy is anyway, so a lot of people just inject their whims and prejudices into half-heartedly trying to define it. Such cultural laziness.

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Old 10-30-2005, 11:44 AM   #58
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Has it so far in human history?
You're living in a nation founded on that philosophy. Otherwise, the idea of "religious freedom" wouldn't remotely be in our collective vocabulary. The Bible certainly doesn't encourage tolerance for other religious beliefs, that's for sure.

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Old 10-30-2005, 11:49 AM   #59
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I think that the seeds of social darwinism, a social movement that was not connected to religion demonstrates that the abuse is not isolated to religion.

I think that secular humanism be broken down furthur: rationalism, empiricism, reductionism, atheism.
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Old 10-30-2005, 11:51 AM   #60
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I think that the seeds of social darwinism, a social movement that was not connected to religion demonstrates that the abuse is not isolated to religion.
Funny you say that, considering that supply-side economics is nothing but "social Darwinism."

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