Middle School Fashion Bullies - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-26-2007, 11:28 PM   #31
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 12:17 PM
While as a general principle I am strongly against brainwashing teenagers by forcing ideas into their heads (e.g., religion) and forcing them to wear uniforms, I can also see the merit of the arguments in favour of uniforms.

If we're going to go enforcing sartorial standards on kids, I think we should probably start by taking a look in the mirror.

The deterioration in sartorial standards amongst adults in recent years is absolutely disgraceful. If you look, for example, at movies from the 1950's or even look at photos from that era, and compare them to today, you will see what I am talking about.

There was a time when adults, particularly and especially the middle class and the upper class, dressed properly and appropriately, and personally I'm all for bringing it back.

I admit, I haven't always lived up to these high standards myself.

I'm thinking of making a New Year's Resolution never to be seen in public without wearing a suit, preferably tailormade. Tailormade suits are not necessarily expensive, by the way. I bought a very decent one recently in Malaysia for only €250 or so.

It's about time someone set some decent standards.

It's about time gracious living came back, and our vulgar common modern mass produced consumerism was set aside.
__________________

__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 10-26-2007, 11:32 PM   #32
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,641
Local Time: 05:17 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
While as a general principle I am strongly against brainwashing teenagers by forcing ideas into their heads (e.g., religion) and forcing them to wear uniforms
Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy

There was a time when adults, particularly and especially the middle class and the upper class, dressed properly and appropriately, and personally I'm all for bringing it back.

Quite a contradiction...

You don't believe in brainwashing ideas or forcing ideas, but yet there's only one "proper" way to dress.
__________________

__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 10-26-2007, 11:37 PM   #33
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,271
Local Time: 06:17 AM
We are asked to conform to some extent every single day of our lives. As Lies stated, in school, you have a mandatory curriculum, mandatory tests and classes. Continues on into college. You enter the workplace and there is a certain standard set.

The idea that there is some inherent danger in high school uniforms just doesn't fly, because I've lived it and I don't see any evidence that my character was stifled during those years or negatively impacted me. Like I said, kids are still different, with different personalities and styles and means of expression, and that comes across no matter what you are dressed in. So we may as well look neat and take away the clothing wars and massive spending on inappropriate clothes.
__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 10-26-2007, 11:39 PM   #34
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,641
Local Time: 05:17 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Liesje
Conformity to what? It's just an outfit..... Forcing everyone to take the EXACT same curriculum, write on the EXACT same paper topics, read all the same books, repeat word for word what the teacher is saying, rinse wash repeat....THAT is what I call conformity, not a plain sweater and pair of slacks.
Well I agree, although I would argue that although they may have the same subject to write on they can write on that subject anyway they'd like(hopefully) and there's really only one answer to 2 + 2...

I was just debating the subject in general that conformity is needed in HS, but I do agree that dress is a small part of it.

To some people it's not just an outfit. Being able to wear a ONE t-shirt, a band t-shirt, or skirt you made yourself speaks about who you are, some kids need that, some don't.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 10-26-2007, 11:41 PM   #35
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Quite a contradiction...

You don't believe in brainwashing ideas or forcing ideas, but yet there's only one "proper" way to dress.
I knew that you would react to my post, and find some way of snidely misinterpreting it.

I did not say that there was only "proper way" to dress. I said absolutely nothing of the sort.
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 10-26-2007, 11:41 PM   #36
Refugee
 
dazzlingamy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The city of blinding lights and amazing coffee - Melbourne.
Posts: 2,468
Local Time: 10:17 PM
i think you're hearing conformity and you're having vietnam, fight the man flashbacks.

Of course its not going to stop kids getting teased at school, or some people being evil bitches/arseholes, but unfortunately thats LIFE. The fact of the matter is, a uniform gets rid of 'what brand are you wearing' at school at least, its provides a sense of comraderie, because everyone is wearing the same thing, a unification if you will - you always know who goes to what school when you're down the street and seeing another people in the same uniform, its like 'oh heeeey!'
it also cuts down on trying to find something to wear, which is a reason especially in high school when i used to walk up 15 mins before class and loved the fact i could slip on a school dress and head out the door
and also, like antitram said, it looks nicer, thens a sense of pride when you wear your uniform, of course there are the 5% who will buck the system, and thats life to still have arseholes no matter what

but the fact is im not talking about some mind control, drone, communistic society in the future, but school is a bit like that, you have to do what you're told, learn what you're given, there is one overlord on which your life at school hangs if you screw up etc but its just school, not life.

Yay for uniforms!
__________________
dazzlingamy is offline  
Old 10-26-2007, 11:43 PM   #37
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
We are asked to conform to some extent every single day of our lives. As Lies stated, in school, you have a mandatory curriculum, mandatory tests and classes. Continues on into college. You enter the workplace and there is a certain standard set.

The idea that there is some inherent danger in high school uniforms just doesn't fly, because I've lived it and I don't see any evidence that my character was stifled during those years or negatively impacted me. Like I said, kids are still different, with different personalities and styles and means of expression, and that comes across no matter what you are dressed in. So we may as well look neat and take away the clothing wars and massive spending on inappropriate clothes.
While I largely agree with the above, it does depend on the particular uniform. I have seen some reasonably elegant uniforms, and others that are not nice at all.
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 10-26-2007, 11:51 PM   #38
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,271
Local Time: 06:17 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy


While I largely agree with the above, it does depend on the particular uniform. I have seen some reasonably elegant uniforms, and others that are not nice at all.
Yeah, that's true. I was lucky in that we had a really nice one (our colours were navy/charcoal), and we had a nice mix of clothes we could buy. They were modern, not overly stuffy, but just sort of perfect for what they were being used for.
__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 10-27-2007, 12:00 AM   #39
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,641
Local Time: 05:17 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy


I knew that you would react to my post, and find some way of snidely misinterpreting it.

I did not say that there was only "proper way" to dress. I said absolutely nothing of the sort.
I think you took it too personally. There was nothing snide about my post.

I just think it's an "oh the good ole days" way of thinking that;
Quote:
There was a time when adults, particularly and especially the middle class and the upper class, dressed properly and appropriately, and personally I'm all for bringing it back.
Who is to say what's proper and appropriate?
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 10-27-2007, 12:07 AM   #40
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 10:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I just think preaching conformity, especially at the high school level is dangerous. It reminds me of 'Brick in the Wall'; "we don't need you thought control".

Why would you preach conformity to the future of your country? We're sold this idea all throughout high school that you are the future, you're the next generation, dream, go out and change the world... how can you do that and preach conformity at the same time?
It's not about thought control. It's a visual leveller of students. Stripping dressing freedoms in students is not removing a sense of identity or stiffling the chance for one to develop. It's not creating a society of potential communists. It really is just a dress code. I think it's an interesting observation that can be made in here, too, that it is people from the countries without dress codes or uniforms who object mostly to the concept of them. It seems as though you (all) perceive a list of potential problems in the individuals and the society these kids become an active part of, which doesn't actually exist. Teaching to go forth and do great things, to stand out and be counted, doesn't contradict the concept of conformity as much as you'd think, either. Remember, a uniform is a superficial covering. It's put in place to be the all-essential leveller. "All students are equal and will not be seperated by social class or race". Underneath their clothes are individuals who are still taught to leave school and do their best. No one at my school could tell by my uniform that my family had no car, nor a telephone in the house until I was about 16. No one could pick on me because I usually only owned about 2 pairs of jeans and an assortment of t-shirts. Clothes were never my thing, and they aren't now, as I sit here in tracksuit pants typing away to you all. I never went through school thinking I had to conform based on what I wore. The uniforms just made us dress the same and allow us to concentrate on learning and exceeding in our particular skill areas.
__________________
<a href=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/angelaharlem/thPaul_Roos28.jpg target=_blank>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...aul_Roos28.jpg</a>
Angela Harlem is offline  
Old 10-27-2007, 12:12 AM   #41
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 07:17 AM
Self expression for kids tends to be "I'm expressing myself -- exactly like everyone else does!" So uniforms should be perfect for the little darlings.

I wore uniforms in high school and I liked them -- they didn't cost a lot, were decent looking (the colours were dark blue skirts or long pants and a white button up shirt -- polos were ok -- and dark blue or white sweaters and socks), and you didn't have to think about what to wear. There were some very rich kids in school and some very poor ones (I was on the latter end -- I worked my way through high school), but no one's outfits really stood out as either much better or much worse than anyone else's. As far as conformity, we were -- and still are -- a more diverse group than the kids who went to the local public school and didn't have uniforms.

I do have to say I'm very happy I can wear whatever the hell I want now.
__________________
indra is offline  
Old 10-27-2007, 12:17 AM   #42
Jesus Online
 
Angela Harlem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a glass castle
Posts: 30,163
Local Time: 10:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


To some people it's not just an outfit. Being able to wear a ONE t-shirt, a band t-shirt, or skirt you made yourself speaks about who you are, some kids need that, some don't.
Here's where it's worth wondering if it's 'not just an outfit' to those who grow up with the option of one. I can't ever recall anyone really getting the shits at our compulsory uniforms. We'd all complain occasionally because it was too hot, or worse, too cold and black stockings and a grey skirt with a navy blazer just wouldn't stop you from freezing your arse off on your school built on the side of a cliff in Katoomba.... But I digress! No, I'm not bitter, really! lol. I got my hair permed in year 7 (aged 12), then spent the next 18 years (up to now) dyeing it, cutting it, changing it, always doing something to it. I experimented with different art mediums, and painting styles. A friend and I got our school to allow glass art in art, and also managed to get it banned (but that is another story for another day ), we had the character ankle socks trend, the hair scrunchie trend, the different ways of wearing a white shirt. There was no stiffling of anyone's styles. We'd still manage having our own sense of identity to burst through and shake it up.
__________________
<a href=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/angelaharlem/thPaul_Roos28.jpg target=_blank>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...aul_Roos28.jpg</a>
Angela Harlem is offline  
Old 10-27-2007, 12:18 AM   #43
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,641
Local Time: 05:17 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem


It's not about thought control. It's a visual leveller of students. Stripping dressing freedoms in students is not removing a sense of identity or stiffling the chance for one to develop. It's not creating a society of potential communists. It really is just a dress code. I think it's an interesting observation that can be made in here, too, that it is people from the countries without dress codes or uniforms who object mostly to the concept of them. It seems as though you (all) perceive a list of potential problems in the individuals and the society these kids become an active part of, which doesn't actually exist. Teaching to go forth and do great things, to stand out and be counted, doesn't contradict the concept of conformity as much as you'd think, either. Remember, a uniform is a superficial covering. It's put in place to be the all-essential leveller. "All students are equal and will not be seperated by social class or race". Underneath their clothes are individuals who are still taught to leave school and do their best. No one at my school could tell by my uniform that my family had no car, nor a telephone in the house until I was about 16. No one could pick on me because I usually only owned about 2 pairs of jeans and an assortment of t-shirts. Clothes were never my thing, and they aren't now, as I sit here in tracksuit pants typing away to you all. I never went through school thinking I had to conform based on what I wore. The uniforms just made us dress the same and allow us to concentrate on learning and exceeding in our particular skill areas.
No, I understand that. That paticular post was about the
Quote:
conformity - thats what you need at high school!
in general, not specific to the uniform debate.

I completely understand the 'leveling' argument. I do. I just think it CAN be a slippery slope, not that it is, but it can be.

And I'm just a big proponent of self expression and believe it's very important and I knew a lot of kids in high school that may have not had "loud voices" but found a way to express themselves with their appearance...

I would definatley be for some type of compromise one that would eliminate the concept of brand names but still allowed self expression. Maybe the kids were allowed to decorate their sweaters with patches, button, etc... allowed to be creative with their uniform.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 10-27-2007, 12:25 AM   #44
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 07:17 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem

A friend and I got our school to allow glass art in art, and also managed to get it banned (but that is another story for another day )
I wanna hear about that!

My class managed to get monitored study halls reinstated for freshman -- but by that time we were sophmores so our free periods were unmonitored. We also got in trouble for drinking a bunch of the priest's booze when we were supposed to be decorating the school.
__________________
indra is offline  
Old 10-27-2007, 12:45 AM   #45
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by indra
We also got in trouble for drinking a bunch of the priest's booze when we were supposed to be decorating the school.
It's interesting that Catholics sometimes seem to hold booze, smoking, gambling, etc, as relatively minor vices, and sexual vices as major ones, whereas Protestants (leaving aside Christian Fundamentalist Protestants, who view all forms of enjoyment as sinful, apparently) tend to take the opposite approach, being relatively judgemental of indulgence in booze and gambling but relatively tolerant regarding sexuality. But that's probably for a different debate.
__________________

__________________
financeguy is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com