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Old 09-22-2004, 01:42 PM   #76
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I hate having an overload of classes right now, and this conference I'm getting ready for, because I'd love to dive into this. It's such an important topic and I feel like the hard-right conservatives have really damaged the social contract in our country. Counterintuitively, they have low income folks actaully voting to reduce the social servies they need. And don't get me started on poverty and homlessness in one of the world's wealthiest nations.

I hate to post and run, but I thought I'd offer this wonderful, detailed, and clear essay by the economist Paul Krugman on the subject. It exposes what folks like Grover Norquist--in Norquists's own words!--are really up to in their campaing to demonize any and all taxation. It also exposes the fact that Norquist and Co knew it was bad economically when they sold it for Regan.

Krugman's "The Tax-Cut Con"--a long read, but well worth it for folks really interested in digging into this issue.

http://www.faireconomy.org/econ/taxe...TaxCutCon.html

SD
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Old 09-22-2004, 01:42 PM   #77
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That is ridiculous and extreme and you know it. There is a lot of pork and fat that can be cut, the $600 toilet seats and $200 screws are a start. Contractors take advantage of the gov't sometimes because they know they are loaded and don't have a lot of time to check into things. They shoud. Then there are things like subsidies to farmers who raise a certain type of sheep for their wool- this was done in the days of wool army uniforms, which are not used anymore, yet the money still goes out. There is an endless list of crap the gov't pays for and sponsors that could be elimated with a little efficiency.
I agree that there is a lot of pork and fat that can be cut. That should be looked at before raising taxes. Getting tax cut after tax cut because we don't think we can hold the government accountable isn't going to solve the problem. The pork and fat isn't cut - all we are doing is building up a deficit.
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Old 09-22-2004, 01:50 PM   #78
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I'm not sure about Medicare, but is sure seems to me that Social Security and public funded schools could well be on their way out.

Isn't abolish another word for privatization? I would say that shifting social security to personal accounts is privitizing.
GOP Social Security Agenda

Isn't pushing for all of these options abolishing public funded schools?
GOP Education Agenda

Giving seniors an option for retirement is "abolishing" social security? Ridiculous. Its called CHOICE. Something I would think the DNC would embrace.

And I don't see where you draw the "abolish public funded schools" when your link highlights a 48% increase in education spending.
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Old 09-22-2004, 02:34 PM   #79
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Giving seniors an option for retirement is "abolishing" social security? Ridiculous. Its called CHOICE. Something I would think the DNC would embrace.
If the goal is to privatize social security - isn't it eventually going to be abolished?

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader

And I don't see where you draw the "abolish public funded schools" when your link highlights a 48% increase in education spending.
I may have misinterpreted public funded schools as public schools. When I read the part about options available for parents, I see all of the other choices that parents can use instead of public schools.

Of course, if the prior year budgets have amounts not spent - then part of the 48% is catching up. Also, if it hasn't been spent before - who is to say that it will be spent now? NCLB has not been managed well at all.

http://www.democrats.org/contrasts/index.html
Quote:
George Bush failed to provide the promised resources necessary for schools to meet the requirements of the No Child Left Behind Act, underfunding his own law by $27 billion. As a result, Bush is punishing schools instead of rewarding them.
GOP is confirming that the money isn't being spent.
http://www.gop.com/GOPAgenda/AgendaPage.aspx?id=3
Quote:
Unspent Federal Funds Available -- No Child Left Behind has made significant new resources available to states and local school districts, but some states and school districts have not been able to take full advantage of these resources. According to the Department of Education, as of December 11, 2003, a total of nearly $6 billion in Federal education funds remained unspent, waiting to be drawn down by state officials. These funds are from amounts appropriated in 2000 through 2002.
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Old 09-22-2004, 02:39 PM   #80
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Giving a private option for social security does not take away the existing public program.

The same is true for parent options in education.

Where are all the pro-choice people????

And the quotes clearly show the misrepresentation by the DNC - NCLB is not underfunded, it is under-utilized by state officials.
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Old 09-22-2004, 02:50 PM   #81
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Giving a private option for social security does not take away the existing public program.

The same is true for parent options in education.

Where are all the pro-choice people????

And the quotes clearly show the misrepresentation by the DNC - NCLB is not underfunded, it is under-utilized by state officials.
Some people can't afford a choice. Instead of working on getting our systems fine tuned - we are letting everyone out expect the ones that can't afford it. The choice of a program left will still have all of the problems it always had. If we make our systems great, why do people need the choice in the first place?

If choice can really benefit all - then I'm all for it.
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Old 09-22-2004, 02:55 PM   #82
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
And the quotes clearly show the misrepresentation by the DNC - NCLB is not underfunded, it is under-utilized by state officials.
Honestly, I'm not an expert - but I don't see Dread having warm and cozy feelings for NCLB AND that he finds the Bush administration responsible. Hopefully he'll pipe in and prove my point or shut me up.
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Old 09-22-2004, 03:46 PM   #83
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Some people can't afford a choice. Instead of working on getting our systems fine tuned - we are letting everyone out expect the ones that can't afford it. The choice of a program left will still have all of the problems it always had. If we make our systems great, why do people need the choice in the first place?

If choice can really benefit all - then I'm all for it.
That is where vouchers come in. It give those who cannot afford education options a choice.

Under the current system, the legislatures who should be improving the system are often the ones sending their kids to private schools.

And, it appears that even teachers lose faith in the public system.
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Old 09-22-2004, 04:56 PM   #84
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Do the schools get paid directly or do you deduct what you spent on your tax return?

nbc, please go back & follow the responses to your comments about Reagan. In summary - it is said that Reagan reversed tax cuts and Bush Sr introduced new taxes. So it sounds like Reagan's tax cuts didn't work like you were indicating.
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