Middle Class Report - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-20-2004, 04:15 AM   #16
Blue Crack Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 17,927
Local Time: 10:17 AM
The woman wrecked not by chance, but because she was EXHAUSTED from having to commute 90 miles to work and 90 miles again AFTER MIDNIGHT, falling asleep at the wheel on her way home. She would not have died if she had not been forced to take that job, she would not have even been on that road that night. Her aunt, who was also forced into the job, was in the car and died too. They both lived with her father (aunt's brother) and the 4 kids. He was 62 and didn't have to get a job. After his sister and daughter died, he was forced to bury them on the family farm in pine boxes with homemade tombstones of wood and hand carved names. The last I heard the welfare was trying to take away the kids because he was old and poor. They probably ended up in 4 different foster homes. That family's life was RUINED because the gov't decided a woman must leave her kids and drive many miles, whatever as long as she worked. You cannot tell me this was the best thing for that family.

I know of another story where a young woman with 3 kids was forced to work, but her 'job training' job only paid barely above minimum wage and she was still forced to work at a gas station at night. It was all too much. One night, she jumped off a bridge. She left a note decribing the misery and hopelessness of her life since Welfare to Work. At least on welfare she was with her kids and not tired all the time. Did anybody ever care about all the kids, especially poor,at risk, inner city kids, left without a mother most of the time because of situations where she's working 2 jobs, or working and going to school? All the more chance of ending up in the streets in trouble.

One more story, damn I wish I could find these links but I don't know where to look. A woman lived with her disabled mother and brother. The brother was severely disabled and she was his caretaker. Welfare to Work forced her to get a job, and when she asked who would care for her brother, they told her to hire a nurse! So she had to work 2 jobs to pay for the nurse! If they had just let her stay there, they'd have been better off. It's so stupid.

In ALL these cases, and more, the biggest problem is that people's lives have become stats on paper and not real with no feeling for them and their particular situation. Maybe some can be helped, some need or even want it, but in other cases it's better to leave them alone. Nobody cares about this or bothers to look into it, it's all so red tape and official, like all gov't crap. But of course fucking Hillary wants all mothers working and all kids in day care anyway so she's happy but it's not always the best thing. It really isn't.

I honestly believe NO ONE cares about the poor, or the working class. None of them "have a heart" for the people who have real problems. But it sounds nice in a speech
__________________

__________________
U2Kitten is offline  
Old 09-20-2004, 05:13 AM   #17
Refugee
 
BostonAnne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 2,052
Local Time: 11:17 AM
The only way that poor people can move up in the world is to go to work and support themselves. Gain the skills that they need to become self-sufficient. I would love to quit my job and stay home with my kids. I think it would be wrong to expect the government to pay for me to do that. I also think it is wrong that the tax dollars of the rest that have to figure out how to balance work & kids should pay for the people that don't want to.

If being a stay at home Mom is the best thing for someone and that's what they want, they need to figure that out in their life plans. The ability to pay your own way in life should come before having children in the first place. We should expect the government for all of the tools and assistance necessary to get us to a point of independence when things aren't going so great, but no one should get a free ride.
__________________

__________________
BostonAnne is offline  
Old 09-20-2004, 05:17 AM   #18
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 01:17 AM
What if we were to just cut all welfare and give massive tax cuts, a purely laizzes faire system of government that left the poor dying in the gutters and the rich becoming ultra-rich?

It would sure as hell weed out anybody who was exploiting the old system (as well as a lot of other people, please this is a bit of a joke about the balance of state and person - go along with it, I am not saying that we should let people just die because they are poor)

p.s.

Eviscerate the proletariat!
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 09-20-2004, 05:24 AM   #19
Blue Crack Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 17,927
Local Time: 10:17 AM
If the gov't is going to pay for child care it could just give that money to the mothers to take care of their own kids. I have seen too many kids sadly neglected by mothers who are never home (and fathers long since departed) Unlike most of you, I live in a poor neighborhood, and while I've never been on welfare I see a lot of people who are or who are working 2-3 jobs to maitain the status quo of a shitty neighborhood and a crap car. Even if people get a job, they don't PAY enough any more to give anyone a decent life. Besides, there just are not enough good jobs with good wages around for all the people who need them, and probably never will be again. It goes back to the original topic here, the middle class is shrinking, jobs are paying less and less or being moved out of the country, and the quality of life of the average person is dropping.

Oh, and 'shoulda thought of that and planned better before you had kids' isn't doing anyone any good now
__________________
U2Kitten is offline  
Old 09-20-2004, 05:38 AM   #20
pax
ONE
love, blood, life
 
pax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ewen's new American home
Posts: 11,412
Local Time: 11:17 AM
Unfortunately, Kitten, I suspect you are right. I see much of this in my own town, where plenty of neighborhoods that were once decent, clean, middle-class places to live are going rapidly downhill because the laborers' families who lived in those houses are now out of work, and they had to either sell (and quickly, for less than the house was worth) or have not been able to keep up the house and the neighborhood, such that a lot of troublemakers have moved in. It saddens me to see places that were once very nice streets just going to seed, a few more with every new round of layoffs.
__________________
and you hunger for the time
time to heal, desire, time


Join Amnesty.
pax is offline  
Old 09-20-2004, 06:02 AM   #21
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Jamila's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,454
Local Time: 09:17 AM
This thread got sidetracked.

This report wasn't about the pros and cons of welfare reform. It was about the DECLINING STATUS OF WORKING PEOPLE, not the pros and cons of various programs.

Please don't get sidetracked - the economic status of MANY American working people have DECLINED SUBSTANTIALLY UNDER THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION.

The U.S. Census Bureau's statistics have said so, my income tax returns say so and if y'all went to interview folks at the unemployment offices in your areas they would say so.
__________________
Jamila is offline  
Old 09-20-2004, 06:05 AM   #22
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Jamila's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,454
Local Time: 09:17 AM
While Bush's administration may not be completely responsible for the downturn in the economy, they ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR LACK OF SUFFICIENT ATTENTION PAID TO THIS CRITICAL ISSUE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND ECONOMY!

To think otherwise is simplistic and foolhardy.

Definitely time for regime change....
__________________
Jamila is offline  
Old 09-20-2004, 06:52 AM   #23
Blue Crack Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 17,927
Local Time: 10:17 AM
I do not believe any 'regime change' is going to make any difference. If you believe that Kerry is Santa Claus who's going to come in the night and make everything okay for everybody, give them all good paying jobs and nice houses, YOU are the one who's "foolhardy." The 'decline' was happening under Clinton, it's happening under Bush, and I don't see any candidate out there who can or will stop it.

Besides the fact that I don't believe any politicians or group of politician is going to do anything, what can they do? The politicians are responsible for many of the jobs leaving the country through free trade and outsourcing (including Clinton giving China most favored nation status despite their horrible human rights record! Why pay an American $20 per hour to make a toy the Chinese will make for 50 cents an hour?) This is a change that would have to include all of society, all of big business, and that is unfortunately not going to happen regardless of who wins the election.

Pax I'm sorry for the folks in your area too
__________________
U2Kitten is offline  
Old 09-20-2004, 07:31 AM   #24
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Jamila's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,454
Local Time: 09:17 AM
We simply need someone in the White House who sees the difficulties that the majority of Americans are having making ends meet and someone who is capable and willing to address the economic situation of these Americans.

Whether Republican or Democrat, this President is DEMONSTRATING THAT EITHER HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE SEVERITY OF THE PROBLEM OR THAT HE IS INCAPABLE/UNWILLING TO DEAL WITH THIS SITUATION.

Under the current economic situation, I'll give Kerry a chance.
__________________
Jamila is offline  
Old 09-20-2004, 07:47 AM   #25
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 07:17 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Jamila
We simply need someone in the White House who sees the difficulties that the majority of Americans are having making ends meet and someone who is capable and willing to address the economic situation of these Americans.

Whether Republican or Democrat, this President is DEMONSTRATING THAT EITHER HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE SEVERITY OF THE PROBLEM OR THAT HE IS INCAPABLE/UNWILLING TO DEAL WITH THIS SITUATION.

Under the current economic situation, I'll give Kerry a chance.
Setting aside the validity of your assertions against Bush, can you articulate why Kerry will do a better job?
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 09-20-2004, 09:34 AM   #26
ONE
love, blood, life
 
zoney!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: six metro locations
Posts: 11,292
Local Time: 09:17 AM
Yes....Kitten is right...this was a decline that was in place when Clinton was in office.

WHY?

12 years of Reagan and Bush (sr.)!
__________________
zoney! is offline  
Old 09-20-2004, 09:42 AM   #27
Blue Crack Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 17,927
Local Time: 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by zoney!
Yes....Kitten is right...this was a decline that was in place when Clinton was in office.

WHY?

12 years of Reagan and Bush (sr.)!
Which started when Jimmy Carter was in office! THAT is the real root of it, the inflation, higher prices, the beginning of lower wages because of foreign competition, factories and manufacturing jobs starting to move out of the country, the decay of the rust belt, tripling of gas prices, etc.
__________________
U2Kitten is offline  
Old 09-20-2004, 12:47 PM   #28
ONE
love, blood, life
 
zoney!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: six metro locations
Posts: 11,292
Local Time: 09:17 AM
And what did Reagan do to stop this?

He had the opportunity to turn it around (eight years in office), but instead, he gave tax cuts to the wealthy and created FURTHER division!

Which is EXACTLY what Bush is doing right now.
__________________
zoney! is offline  
Old 09-20-2004, 12:56 PM   #29
Blue Crack Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 17,927
Local Time: 10:17 AM
And what is Kerry going to do to stop it? NOTHING just like everyone else. It's not a political thing, it's social and business trends. It's been going sour for over 25 years now, regardless of who's in office (though the 80's were more profitable times in many ways)

I don't disagree this is happening, I think it's worse than most of you believe. What I'm saying is acting like Kerry is going to wave a magic wand and make it go away is unrealistic. Regardless of who is elected in November, we working class dogs are fucked. Yes, I'm cynical, bitter, and negative. Time and troubles have done this to me. I'm a daydream believer but reality bites and it's not going away. Kerry cannot and is not going to change a damn thing about this if elected. The only people who can do anything are the big corporations and big business and they aren't going to because as long as the CEO's have their 40 million a year by cutting back on the salaries and benefits of workers, they're going to do it. The government could help by implementing rules that forced businesses to run differently, but you never hear them say that because BOTH parties are funded by them and they are going to kiss their asses. As long as we are stuck with the 2 party system nothing is going to change.
__________________
U2Kitten is offline  
Old 09-20-2004, 01:09 PM   #30
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 07:17 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by zoney!
And what did Reagan do to stop this?

He had the opportunity to turn it around (eight years in office), but instead, he gave tax cuts to the wealthy and created FURTHER division!

Which is EXACTLY what Bush is doing right now.
Come on, it sounds like the DNC talking points about tax cuts. Class warfare isn't necessary.
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com