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Old 11-05-2004, 02:15 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by swizzlestick
Here's 10 more reasons:

1. For 4 more years, we will be killing terrorists where they live instead of the other way around.
2. For 4 more years, integrity and honesty will prevail in the Oval Office.
3. For 4 more years, America will decide its fate instead of the UN and Jacques Chirac.
4. For 4 more years, the spending power will be in the hands on each individual instead of the government's hands.
5. For 4 more years, those who work will be rewarded with more money instead of apathy being the path to riches.
6. For 4 more years, the fight will continue to stop the leeches of society (lawyers) from filing frivolous lawsuits.
7. For 4 more years, the moral majority will not have immorality forced down their throats by the freakish few.
8. For 4 more years, the fight will continue to protect the unborn.
9. For 4 more years, America will be a capitalistic society.
10. For 4 more years, John Kerry will be just another Senator from Taxachusettes.

1. yes, we've got terrorists in Iraq now, when they weren't there before, and we're creating more every day! lots more to kill!
2. Enron. Halliburton. doctored intelligence. WMDs (lack thereof)
3. yes, "old Europe" certainly got it wrong on Iraq and who needs allies in an unwinnable situation anyway?
4. a republican congress working with a republican president created the massive new Medicare prescription-drug entitlement, passed a new, subsidy-crammed farm bill, committed hundreds of billions of dollars to war efforts, and loaded up on pork-barrel spending. meanwhile, taxes were reduced—on wage earners, investors, and companies. end result: same amount of taxes in fiscal 2004 as we did in fiscal 1999. but we spent 34 percent more. the total national debt has risen 30 percent in the past four years.
5. an no one more than the massive corporations who got, just before the Congressional recess, an appalling, special-interest-written, corporate tax bill that will deprive the government of more than $100 billion in future revenues.
6. and leave average citizens less recourse to seek compensation when they are done harm by corporations that seek to put profit over safety and manufacture coffee makers that explode, pajamas that are flammable, and swimming pool drains that suck the intenstines out of 6 year old girls.
7. you don't have to buy what you don't want, and who's morality?
8. and further subjugate women by reducing what they can and cannot do with their bodies, providing no provisions for the life of the mother, and returning us to an era of backalley abortions and coathangers. shall we start handing out scarlet letter A's?
9. yes, because Democrats are Communists.
10. yes, Massachusetts is a terrible place with it's low divorce rate, great health care, fine public services, and the greatest universities on earth as well as being the birthplace of our country.
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:15 PM   #47
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Originally posted by Irvine511
they all seemed to agree on GWB.

the point isn't that one church will take over, but that a Christian worldview that is far more fundamentalist in nature will have a pervasive influence in Washington and legislation will pass that is from a distinct Christian viewpoint. this is what is scary to those of us who find little use for organized religion and don't share Christian philosphies and teachings.

and it's happened already. Ashcroft. he spend some of my money to cover up the bare breasts of a statue when he was giving a speech. you might also see the FCC taking steps in this direction.
There are plenty of different worldviews that have an influence in Washington. A Christian worldview is just as valid as any other.

This has gone on for decades. Most, if not all, Presidents have professed to be Christians. The Christian worldview has always been present. As a Christian, I don't see any significant change resulting from GWB's second term.
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:16 PM   #48
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Conservative and religious aren't synonyms. There just happened to be more evangelicals in the Repub party then the other party. So should the religious people have no voice or be marginalized in this government/ nation (even if you think its viewpoints are radical/ irrational) b/c they have religious viewpoints? I think that sounds like bigotry to me considering how easily we are throwing around the word these days.
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:20 PM   #49
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Michael Moore Responds

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


as opposed to the Bible, or your minister, the news and newspapers have fact checkers and standards of practice. do they mess up? yes. do they do their jobs well? yes.
This statement is pure ignorance. What do you think the most widely scrutinized book in history is?

Quote:

the big success of calling the media "liberal" is that conservatives gave their followers tools to ignore news they don't like or that doesn't fit in with their worldview.
It isn't just a handful of conservatives who call the NYT, Newsweek, etc. liberal -- they call themselves liberal!

Quote:

the internet does this too, where you can only consult the pages or read the people who agree with you. they also increase thier readership and loyalty by giving you more of what you want to hear, rather than trying to report the news.
Well, in the last couple of months I've read:

The Boston Globe
The New York Times
The Wall Street Journal
CNN.com
The Daily Telegraph
The Guardian
BBC.co.uk
Yahoo! news
The New Republic
National Review
Slate
Instapundit
Tacitus
Daily Kos
Talking Points Memo
The Volokh Conspiracy
The Washington Monthly
Atrios
Power Line
OxBlog
...

How about you?

Quote:

also assuming that if one is secular -- again, this is a good thing; in the realm of the real, we should all be secular
So much for open-minded debate.
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:22 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader

As a Christian, I don't see any significant change resulting from GWB's second term.
no, you probably woudn't.

but if Roe v. Wade is overturned, if "sodomy" laws are put back on the books, if certain kinds of programs are funded more than others -- abstience only education, cutting federal funding from programs that provide family planning in 3rd World countries -- then we'll really know we're in a Christian nation.
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:22 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by swizzlestick
Here's 10 more reasons:

1. For 4 more years, we will be killing terrorists where they live instead of the other way around.
2. For 4 more years, integrity and honesty will prevail in the Oval Office.
3. For 4 more years, America will decide its fate instead of the UN and Jacques Chirac.
4. For 4 more years, the spending power will be in the hands on each individual instead of the government's hands.
5. For 4 more years, those who work will be rewarded with more money instead of apathy being the path to riches.
6. For 4 more years, the fight will continue to stop the leeches of society (lawyers) from filing frivolous lawsuits.
7. For 4 more years, the moral majority will not have immorality forced down their throats by the freakish few.
8. For 4 more years, the fight will continue to protect the unborn.
9. For 4 more years, America will be a capitalistic society.
10. For 4 more years, John Kerry will be just another Senator from Taxachusettes.
The best list of 10 items I've seen created in the past 2000 years. Interesting enough, Moses had a speech impediment, much like our great leader now. He was a young man who said God called him to preach. His initial reaction was, "Who? Me? I can’t do that, Lord. You have the wrong person." Unlike Moses, that young man eventually stopped protesting and did as God called him to do. He stood before large audiences with a severe stutter and witnessed for God. He set aside his own ego and personal fear of embarrassment in order to serve God. The parallels between Moses and George Bush go much deeper than that though, both chosen by God to lead the people.
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:24 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


no, you probably woudn't.

but if Roe v. Wade is overturned, if "sodomy" laws are put back on the books, if certain kinds of programs are funded more than others -- abstience only education, cutting federal funding from programs that provide family planning in 3rd World countries -- then we'll really know we're in a Christian nation.
You might like to know that one can actually argue in favor of most of these points without making reference to religion. Shocking but true.
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:25 PM   #53
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Michael Moore Responds

Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer


This statement is pure ignorance. What do you think the most widely scrutinized book in history is?

scrutinized by those who already believe. to create modern legislation based upon a text central to one religion is the definition of theocracy. how would you feel if we legislated from the Koran?

It isn't just a handful of conservatives who call the NYT, Newsweek, etc. liberal -- they call themselves liberal!

Where?

Well, in the last couple of months I've read:

The Boston Globe
The New York Times
The Wall Street Journal
CNN.com
The Daily Telegraph
The Guardian
BBC.co.uk
Yahoo! news
Slate
Instapundit
Tacitus
Daily Kos
Talking Points Memo
The Volokh Conspiracy
The Washington Monthly
Atrios
...

How about you?

all those and more. you're not impressing me in the slightest.

So much for open-minded debate.
open-minded debate is predicated upon evidence, logic, reason, and debating what we know as opposed to what we believe. faith is a wonderful, powerful thing -- it's also a personal thing. this is what secularists are talking about: it's not faith, but the presence of faith in public life that makes many of us uncomfortable because it *assumes* a single, correct worldview.
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:26 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer


You might like to know that one can actually argue in favor of most of these points without making reference to religion. Shocking but true.
care to show us?
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:29 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by GOP_Catholic


The best list of 10 items I've seen created in the past 2000 years. Interesting enough, Moses had a speech impediment, much like our great leader now. He was a young man who said God called him to preach. His initial reaction was, "Who? Me? I can’t do that, Lord. You have the wrong person." Unlike Moses, that young man eventually stopped protesting and did as God called him to do. He stood before large audiences with a severe stutter and witnessed for God. He set aside his own ego and personal fear of embarrassment in order to serve God. The parallels between Moses and George Bush go much deeper than that though, both chosen by God to lead the people.

be afraid. be very afraid. our president was chosen by god.

this is the most terrifying thing i've yet heard, and believe me, i go to some right-wing places on the internet.

good to know this kind of thinking is out there.
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:31 PM   #56
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Michael Moore Responds

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


open-minded debate is predicated upon evidence, logic, reason, and debating what we know as opposed to what we believe. faith is a wonderful, powerful thing -- it's also a personal thing. this is what secularists are talking about: it's not faith, but the presence of faith in public life that makes many of us uncomfortable because it *assumes* a single, correct worldview.
Guess what -- politicians make basic assumptions about things as well.
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:32 PM   #57
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Michael Moore Responds

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Originally posted by speedracer


Guess what -- politicians make basic assumptions about things as well.

point?
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:38 PM   #58
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Michael Moore Responds

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
open-minded debate is predicated upon evidence, logic, reason, and debating what we know as opposed to what we believe. faith is a wonderful, powerful thing -- it's also a personal thing. this is what secularists are talking about: it's not faith, but the presence of faith in public life that makes many of us uncomfortable because it *assumes* a single, correct worldview.
Secularists have the same "our worldview is correct" attitude at anyone else.


At this point, we have gone from "no establishment of religion" to "religious worldviews are improper".
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:40 PM   #59
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Originally posted by Irvine511


care to show us?
Peruse some of the other threads in FYM. There have been many abortion debates where arguments against are not based on religion.
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:45 PM   #60
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Originally posted by sharky


Go Wolverines!
Too bad they're playing Michigan STATE this weekend, not Michigan.
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