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Old 11-05-2004, 12:27 PM   #31
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Michael Moore Responds

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Originally posted by Irvine511


especially by news and newspapers which must rightly deal with evidence, fact, and reason as opposed to subjective beliefs and worldviews that cannot and do not apply to everyone.
Uh-huh.

Newspapers and news programs are paragons of objectivity and truth.

Come on. You know that op-ed pages and political TV programs (obviously) present the biases of their authors, and that straight news pieces are still colored at least slightly in this manner.

I'm pretty sure there have been a number of surveys that show that in the USA, journalists are more secular and more liberal than the population as a whole. That's why Christians (using the term somewhat loosely) sometimes feel as if they're being marginalized, even though they're still a pretty solid majority.

While I still peruse the New York Times, CNN and other MSM, I find a lot of news/political blogs on both sides much more enlightening, because they're straight-up about their point of view.
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Old 11-05-2004, 12:29 PM   #32
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Michael Moore Responds

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Originally posted by Irvine511



yes because not everyone is christian, not everyone believes in God, and not everyone wants to have a theocratic worldview shoved down their throat especially by news and newspapers which must rightly deal with evidence, fact, and reason as opposed to subjective beliefs and worldviews that cannot and do not apply to everyone. there must be a division between the religious and the secular, modern society is based upon this division.
Well said.
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Old 11-05-2004, 12:30 PM   #33
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Originally posted by Irvine511
there's no coincidence that your average Daily Show viewer knows more about politics and history than your average Fox viewer, even if the DS viewer is stoned more often than not.
there's also no conincidence that Fox's ratings continue to grow higher and higher and higher.

again... the lefties just don't get it. instead of protesting outside of Fox, embrace it and try to change it. bashing it isn't gonna help, seeing as it's the highest rated news station in america... by a land slide. 9 times as many people watch o'reilly than watch cnn or msnbc durring the same time slot. constantly putting the people who watch this show down ain't gonna work.
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Old 11-05-2004, 12:44 PM   #34
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Walter Cronkite believes the media is liberal. Evan Thomas, the editor of Newsweek, believes it too. I believe it. I believe this election cycle has only strengthened that belief and the fact that most mainstream news media are more prone to be like entertainment media (not as accuarate, gossipy, motive driven, and not as precise as they should be) doesn't help me to truly trust them either.
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Old 11-05-2004, 12:49 PM   #35
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Oh yeah... it was a fun read from Moore... not as biting which is I guess refreshing. I think he took too much joy in knowing Osama seemingly used his movie for "talking points." But I could be off.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:06 PM   #36
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Originally posted by U2Kitten


IMO, the average celebrity knows even LESS about real life than most politicians do!
Amen to that!
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:24 PM   #37
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I have a real problem with these so-called "family-values leaders." Specifically because they treat gays as if they're not part of American families. Don't let them marry, don't let them have civil unions...well guess what. Gays aren't some separatist movement - they are part of American families all around. They are brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts, nieces, nephews, and in some cases moms and dads - and guess what, the more you ostracize them, the more damage you are doing to "family-values" because they ARE family.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:41 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flying FuManchu
Walter Cronkite believes the media is liberal. Evan Thomas, the editor of Newsweek, believes it too. I believe it. I believe this election cycle has only strengthened that belief and the fact that most mainstream news media are more prone to be like entertainment media (not as accuarate, gossipy, motive driven, and not as precise as they should be) doesn't help me to truly trust them either.

Bill Kristol, one of the father's of the phrase "liberal media" and editor of the very conservative Weekly Standard and a well known neo-con, is on record as stating that the media isn't liberal, that the term "liberal bias" was the conservatives "working the refs" as you would do in any basketball game.

the media is, and should be, secular. as should our government be secular.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:50 PM   #39
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Michael Moore Responds

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Originally posted by speedracer


Uh-huh.

Newspapers and news programs are paragons of objectivity and truth.

Come on. You know that op-ed pages and political TV programs (obviously) present the biases of their authors, and that straight news pieces are still colored at least slightly in this manner.

I'm pretty sure there have been a number of surveys that show that in the USA, journalists are more secular and more liberal than the population as a whole. That's why Christians (using the term somewhat loosely) sometimes feel as if they're being marginalized, even though they're still a pretty solid majority.

While I still peruse the New York Times, CNN and other MSM, I find a lot of news/political blogs on both sides much more enlightening, because they're straight-up about their point of view.
as opposed to the Bible, or your minister, the news and newspapers have fact checkers and standards of practice. do they mess up? yes. do they do their jobs well? yes.

the big success of calling the media "liberal" is that conservatives gave their followers tools to ignore news they don't like or that doesn't fit in with their worldview. the internet does this too, where you can only consult the pages or read the people who agree with you. they also increase thier readership and loyalty by giving you more of what you want to hear, rather than trying to report the news.

also assuming that if one is secular -- again, this is a good thing; in the realm of the real, we should all be secular ... it baffles me as to why the president must say "god bless america" as if America hasn't been blessed enough -- or liberal and therefore inequipped to be a journalist is assuming that they cannot do their job. that's like saying, "hey, you're white; you cannot write a review of this latino film."

besides, the best news in america isn't on CNN or Fox, but on "liberal" PBS with Jim Lehrer.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:51 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
the media is, and should be, secular. as should our government be secular.
Is media run by the Church? Do we have a Church of the United States?
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:51 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Is media run the a church? Do we have a Church of the United States?

if some had their way, there would be.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:54 PM   #42
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Well we can always get in a tizzy about speculative things.


There is no way we could have one Church in this country or run this country. Just open up the phone book and see how many different churches there are. Many of them are located right next to each other. Lack of unity will continue to ensure that there is no movement towards a Church of the United States.
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Old 11-05-2004, 01:58 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Well we can always get in a tizzy about speculative things.


There is no way we could have one Church in this country or run this country. Just open up the phone book and see how many different churches there are. Many of them are located right next to each other. Lack of unity will continue to ensure that there is no movement towards a Church of the United States.

they all seemed to agree on GWB.

the point isn't that one church will take over, but that a Christian worldview that is far more fundamentalist in nature will have a pervasive influence in Washington and legislation will pass that is from a distinct Christian viewpoint. this is what is scary to those of us who find little use for organized religion and don't share Christian philosphies and teachings.

and it's happened already. Ashcroft. he spend some of my money to cover up the bare breasts of a statue when he was giving a speech. you might also see the FCC taking steps in this direction.
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:00 PM   #44
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Here's 10 more reasons:

1. For 4 more years, we will be killing terrorists where they live instead of the other way around.
2. For 4 more years, integrity and honesty will prevail in the Oval Office.
3. For 4 more years, America will decide its fate instead of the UN and Jacques Chirac.
4. For 4 more years, the spending power will be in the hands on each individual instead of the government's hands.
5. For 4 more years, those who work will be rewarded with more money instead of apathy being the path to riches.
6. For 4 more years, the fight will continue to stop the leeches of society (lawyers) from filing frivolous lawsuits.
7. For 4 more years, the moral majority will not have immorality forced down their throats by the freakish few.
8. For 4 more years, the fight will continue to protect the unborn.
9. For 4 more years, America will be a capitalistic society.
10. For 4 more years, John Kerry will be just another Senator from Taxachusettes.
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:09 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



they all seemed to agree on GWB.

the point isn't that one church will take over, but that a Christian worldview that is far more fundamentalist in nature will have a pervasive influence in Washington and legislation will pass that is from a distinct Christian viewpoint. this is what is scary to those of us who find little use for organized religion and don't share Christian philosphies and teachings.

and it's happened already. Ashcroft. he spend some of my money to cover up the bare breasts of a statue when he was giving a speech. you might also see the FCC taking steps in this direction.
Replace "Christian" with the word "specific" and consider this post again.
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