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BonoVoxSupastar said:


And it's your theory that these "failures" were due to the size of population?

mismanagement, which is what i have been stating all along.
 
struckpx said:


mismanagement, which is what i have been stating all along.

No, your original argument was:

struckpx said:

i am not saying the healthcare system there is bad, but canada also has a lot less people than the US.

You were basing it on size.

Your correlations to the post office and Amtrack aren't quite fair. Technology changed those things, making them obsolete in many cases. Technology changed the medical field, but won't ever make it obsolete.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


No, your original argument was:



You were basing it on size.

Your correlations to the post office and Amtrack aren't quite fair. Technology changed those things, making them obsolete in many cases. Technology changed the medical field, but won't ever make it obsolete.

universalizing health care will make many private companies go out of business b/c the prices of medicine will go down. the competitiveness for new drugs will dive and ultimately we will suffer.

we are just going to debate this on and on. i have stated my voice, you don't agree. universal health care won't happen anytime soon here. the democrats can lobby all they want, but the companies run this country, and it would be political suicide for them to do that. so, really think about what the potential candidates say regarding health care. if they say, "i am going to change the whole system," not likely.

that's like saying that israel is going to pull out of the west bank in 4 years. even if they said that they were going to pull out, it would take years for them to move and deconstruct all of the settlements and infrastructure already in place.
 
struckpx said:


universalizing health care will make many private companies go out of business b/c the prices of medicine will go down. the competitiveness for new drugs will dive and ultimately we will suffer.
Now, this is closer to a real argument. But tell me something, how much of pharma is making us suffer now? And why does it not effect countries that do have social medicine?

struckpx said:


we are just going to debate this on and on. i have stated my voice, you don't agree. universal health care won't happen anytime soon here. the democrats can lobby all they want, but the companies run this country, and it would be political suicide for them to do that. so, really think about what the potential candidates say regarding health care. if they say, "i am going to change the whole system," not likely.

It's just that you weren't able to back up anything. You kept changing your reasonings. First it was the size of the country, then mismangement, then it was private business, etc... I don't think you really know why you are against social medicine.

How many are running on a platform that they are going to "change the whole system"?
 
i am against social medicine b/c i don't want a large percentage of my "hard-earned" going towards health care. I would much rather have my future employer pay for it.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:

Now, this is closer to a real argument. But tell me something, how much of pharma is making us suffer now? And why does it not effect countries that do have social medicine?


proof?

from my personal readings, I don't read about breaking technology and cures coming from Europe that much. Mainly it is from here and Asia. Although, maybe I am out of the loop.
 
struckpx said:

Although, maybe I am out of the loop.

You are.

I already posted about this on this thread.

The 2nd most sold pharmaceutical drug in the world was developed by the French in France. And it's not the only one, either.
 
struckpx said:
i am against social medicine b/c i don't want a large percentage of my "hard-earned" going towards health care. I would much rather have my future employer pay for it.

:lol: I thought it was because it wouldn't work?

Do you even know how socialized medicine works?
 
anitram said:


You are.

I already posted about this on this thread.

The 2nd most sold pharmaceutical drug in the world was developed by the French in France. And it's not the only one, either.

Well, on a larger scale. One drug is not much. The US has innovations happening all over the place. Why? Because there are corporations that are willing to fund it. They can make money off of it. How does this help us? Well, ultimately, we can live longer.
 
struckpx said:


proof?

from my personal readings, I don't read about breaking technology and cures coming from Europe that much. Mainly it is from here and Asia. Although, maybe I am out of the loop.

:| Uninformed...:shame:
 
struckpx said:

How does this help us? Well, ultimately, we can live longer.

Except for the part where you live shorter than Canadians, Japanese and many Western European nationals.
 
anitram said:


Except for the part where you live shorter than Canadians, Japanese and many Western European nationals.

Yes, unfortunately, we have a larger ethnicity mix, so our age variance differentiates. Plus w/ about 270 million more people, you would think it would vary greatly as well.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


Have you seen me change my stance every post and post misinformation?

hahaa. what are you talking about? Where have I ever changed my stance? I have three core concepts towards universal health care: costs, management, and population. Those three factors in the US make it not applicable.
 
struckpx said:


hahaa. what are you talking about? Where have I ever changed my stance? I have three core concepts towards universal health care: costs, management, and population. Those three factors in the US make it not applicable.

None of which you could back up, and everytime that was shown to you changed the subject...
 
i have given ample evidence that you are unwilling to comment on and rebuke. if you are that anti-america, go ahead and truck it up to canada.
 
struckpx said:
i have given ample evidence that you are unwilling to comment on and rebuke. if you are that anti-america, go ahead and truck it up to canada.

Do you even know where I live?

How am I anti-American?




I'm going to reiterate this one more time:


Mismanagement: You compared it to organizations that technology made almost obsolete, how is that a fair comparison?

Population: You didn't even come close to backing this one up, and asked you several questions regarding this, which you ignored.

Cost: I can understand this argument somewhat, but if you look at the overall picture there is a lot of argument that it can even itself out.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


Do you even know where I live?

How am I anti-American?




I'm going to reiterate this one more time:


Mismanagement: You compared it to organizations that technology made almost obsolete, how is that a fair comparison?

Population: You didn't even come close to backing this one up, and asked you several questions regarding this, which you ignored.

Cost: I can understand this argument somewhat, but if you look at the overall picture there is a lot of argument that it can even itself out.

Mismanagement: Post-office. Wasn't due to technology. They flat out had to many employees.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


Do you even know where I live?


If you aren't American, how can you know the ins and outs of our health care system personally? That lowers the level of argument.

Also, it isn't a God given right that everyone should have free health care. At least that is what I believe. If you have a job and are helping out society, you can get healthcare. But if you aren't doing anything and being lazy, why should I spend my hard-earned for you to get treatment to lose weight?
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


You don't think email has changed the post office? Come on!!!

i am not debating that. but, its government. they don't care about that stuff. for the government to lay off people it has to be in severely bad conditions.
 
struckpx said:

Also, it isn't a God given right that everyone should have free health care. At least that is what I believe. If you have a job and are helping out society, you can get healthcare. But if you aren't doing anything and being lazy, why should I spend my hard-earned for you to get treatment to lose weight?

Just like Jesus taught. :drool:
 
struckpx said:


If you aren't American, how can you know the ins and outs of our health care system personally? That lowers the level of argument.
I do live in America, but it isn't smart to make assumptions. There are people who have lived here once and don't anymore. Or who just have done the research.

Regardless, assumptions and personal attacks should be avoided.

struckpx said:

Also, it isn't a God given right that everyone should have free health care. At least that is what I believe.
I don't know what god you believe in.

struckpx said:

If you have a job and are helping out society, you can get healthcare.

That's not true. There are many who work and still can't afford healthcare. Do a little research.
 
struckpx said:


i am not debating that. but, its government. they don't care about that stuff. for the government to lay off people it has to be in severely bad conditions.

:lol: But it was still due to technology, why are you denying that?

Face it, it was a bad analogy.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


:lol: But it was still due to technology, why are you denying that?

Face it, it was a bad analogy.

No, the post office should be making money no matter what, for it is a monopoly in its system. It has no competition, therefore it has nothing to lose.
 
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