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Old 06-24-2007, 04:53 PM   #76
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I'm actually working on a Health Law casebook at the moment, interestingly enough. Otherwise I wouldn't know many of these things off the top of my head.

Initially there was a hodge podge of coverage. You had some private insurance, some employer co-pay insurance (much like in the US), and then the poor would be admitted to hospital on a charity basis, essentially. The way it evolved was basically like this: first, in Saskatchewan, a pilot program was started giving every citizen of SK free hospital coverage only. Then, a second program in a smaller town (can't remember which one off the top of my head) provided all the citizens in that town with complete, universal health insurance. When other provincial governments saw that this was functioning well and efficiently, a national commission was established with the view of expanding it throughout Canada. In 1958, every Canadian had free hospital services and 10 years later, the Medical Care Act was passed. This was eventually modernized into the act we have to day, The Canada Health Act, which establishes an agreement between the provinces and the federal government, outlining the five criteria which the provincial healthcare systems had to meet to qualify for a full federal cash contribution.

I will give you some statistics, as well so that you can see that this private healthcare by no means guarantees you more service or better service.

The OECD published a study in 2003, outlining health expenditures. The US health spending is 15% of total GDP (compared to Canada 9.9%, UK 7.7%, France 10.1%, Germany 11.1%, Japan 7.9%, Denmark 9%, etc). However, when you look at the # of acute beds per 1000, the US has less than all those countries. It has 2.8 acute beds/1000, compare to Canada 3.2, Germany 6.6, France 3.8, UK 3.7, Japan 8.5, Denmark 3.4. The US does have more MRIs per million than the UK, Canada, France and Germany, but lags behind Denmark (9.1 vs. 8.6) and REALLY lags behind Japan (8.6 v. 35.3).

The same study looked at other comparisons. The US has a lower life expectancy at birth than Canada (both men and women), a higher infant mortality rate, comparable cancer rates, considerably higher rates of cardiovascular deaths, higher rates of diabetes, obesity and smoking. I won't even compare to European countries because there the disparity is enormous. Plus, Canada and the US have more similar societies than the Europeans.

So that's just a quick overview for you.
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Old 06-24-2007, 04:54 PM   #77
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Re: McDonald's - They've certainly made steps in the right direction to have healthier options.
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Old 06-24-2007, 05:01 PM   #78
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It is also portion control

This is where a lot of us fall down



Where I live

Newport Beach CA
the donut shops sell bananas for 75 cents
and the "Stop and Go" market has both apples and bananas for 79 cents.

It is harder to justify getting that candy bar or bag of nacho cheese Doritos just because I need a snack and there nothing else.
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Old 06-24-2007, 05:38 PM   #79
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Americans live for 2 years shorter than Canadians and some Western European countries, but I still think it's an uneven comparison. For example, African-Americans are 13% percent of the US population, and have a life expectancy of around 5 years less than white Americans. So, that will affect the average. Some Asian countries also have a life expectancy of 2 years longer than Canada and the Western European countries.
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Old 06-24-2007, 05:53 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally posted by ntalwar
Americans live for 2 years shorter than Canadians and some Western European countries, but I still think it's an uneven comparison. For example, African-Americns are 13% percent of the US population, and have a life expectancy of around 5 years less than white Americans. So, that will affect the average. Some Asian countries also have a life expectancy of 2 years longer than Canada and the Western European countries.


seems a bit odd, to bring race in to the picture


I think people with good health care and better nutrition/ diet opportunities

live longer than people without

My guess is that "native Americans" live shorter lives
for the same reasons




goes to book shelve to dust off copy of
"Bell Curve"

oh yeah, don't own it and never will
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Old 06-24-2007, 05:57 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by ntalwar
Americans live for 2 years shorter than Canadians and some Western European countries, but I still think it's an uneven comparison. For example, African-Americans are 13% percent of the US population, and have a life expectancy of around 5 years less than white Americans. So, that will affect the average. Some Asian countries also have a life expectancy of 2 years longer than Canada and the Western European countries.
Americans live 3 years shorter than Canadians (men and women) per OECD. If you look at Japan, their men live only 1 year longer than Canadian men and 4 years longer than American men, so it is not as huge of a difference - Asians used to have a greater disparity 10-15 years ago.

A good question to ask is why do African Americans live 5 years shorter and whether this is a genetic issue or a failure of the social safety net? Life expectancy is indirectly related to health care. People who have yearly physicals and who have their own family physician who monitors them and advises them about their diet, their weight, and any fluctuations in their cholesterol levels, who does routine and regular blood work, takes urine samples and so on are going to live healthier. Poor people do not see the doctor as often, and preventive medicine plays a small role in their overall wellbeing. If you have a healthcare system which is beyond the reach of these most at-risk populations, that is certainly going to play a role in their lifetime expectancy.
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Old 06-24-2007, 06:00 PM   #82
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Quote:
Life expectancy is indirectly related to health care.
I would (and did) say

directly
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Old 06-24-2007, 06:04 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
[B]



seems a bit odd, to bring race in to the picture


I think people with good health care and better nutrition/ diet opportunities

live longer than people without

My guess is that "native Americans" live shorter lives
for the same reasons




goes to book shelve to dust off copy of
"Bell Curve"

oh yeah, don't own it and never will
Good nutrition for one population may not be good for another, look at incidences of lactose intolerance across the different asian and native american populations compared to european populations.

Curse the racist enzyme!

Although I think that poverty has a much stronger effect on mortality since it just makes people even less likely to take preventative measures against diseases that they may be predisposed to, just look at the third world life expectancy our aboriginal population enjoys.
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Old 06-24-2007, 06:04 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


seems a bit odd, to bring race in to the picture


Which I did because the CDC tracks it:



But it looks like life expectancies are going up for everyone, which is good news.
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Old 06-24-2007, 06:20 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Good nutrition for one population may not be good for another, look at incidences of lactose intolerance across the different asian and native american populations compared to european populations.

Curse the racist enzyme!

Although I think that poverty has a much
This middle aged white man
living on the beach is CA
is Lactose intolerant.

I think we are doing too much dairy.

It is killing the palnet and us - heart disease.

After adolescence we should cut way back.

I am sure there are some nutritionist looking in
that can weigh in on this.
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Old 06-24-2007, 06:26 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by ntalwar



Which I did because the CDC tracks it:



But it looks like life expectancies are going up for everyone, which is good news.
I do get what you are saying.

My guess is that the "native people" in Canada have shorter life spans, too.

And if they are 15-20% of that population
I would not want to separate them out to presuppose a higher average.

A National average includes all Nationals regardless of sub-group category.

It is good to look at sub-groups
to learn what we can do for groups that are at greater risk.
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Old 06-24-2007, 06:39 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


And if they are 15-20% of that population
I would not want to separate them out to presuppose a higher average.
Actually about three and a half percent, but I get what you're saying as well.
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Old 06-24-2007, 06:56 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by ntalwar



Which I did because the CDC tracks it:



But it looks like life expectancies are going up for everyone, which is good news.

The thing that jumps out at me from this graph is how much lower male life expectancies are by comparison to female, for both races.

But to merely draw attention to this is to invite ridicule from the so-called liberals, as we've seen in other threads on this forum.
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Old 06-24-2007, 07:00 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep

This middle aged white man
living on the beach is CA
is Lactose intolerant.

I think we are doing too much dairy.

It is killing the palnet and us - heart disease.

After adolescence we should cut way back.

I am sure there are some nutritionist looking in
that can weigh in on this.
I am very lactose intolerant as well.

Giving cow's milk to young babies has some serious potential consequences (think juvenile diabetes). This was a very important finding by a research team in Toronto, several years ago. The dairy industry and dairy lobby have done a very good job. It is only a few decades ago that governments used to subsidize diary farmers in their battle against the evils of margarine. And today, there are still jurisdictions (Quebec most notably), where margarine has to be a certain colour, lest the public confuse it with wholesome butter.
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Old 06-24-2007, 07:04 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy

But to merely draw attention to this is to invite ridicule from the so-called liberals, as we've seen in other threads on this forum.
It's not a conservative/liberal thing for me. I merely used the government chart for statistical reasons, because it's proven that race and gender are factors in life expectancy for certain countries. E.g. life expectancy of a native American male versus a native Canadian male, or a white American woman versus a white French woman takes many of the factors out of the comparison, and is more credible.
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