Michael Moore - brilliant and uplifting - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-20-2007, 05:48 PM   #31
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,272
Local Time: 01:37 AM
I liked it better than Bowling and Fahrenheit. It had less of Moore's standard stunts (although there were still a few, obviously) so if you find that to be particularly obnoxious, then you'll like this. It was a lot more personal, and some of the people/patients he introduced you to had really touching and heartbreaking stories. He spent a lot of time on them, and less time on mocking politicians, so that made it a better movie as well, I felt.

He went to France, the UK and Canada to look at their health systems. I can't speak for the other two, but he did give a pretty rosy picture of the Canadian one. Our system is pretty good - the way you hear it described in the US as horrible and with huge waitlists is a lot of fearmongering garbage. BUT I have also waited in ERs for several hours, not the 30-45 minutes he seemed to be suggesting. So I'd say this is a valid criticism.

It's definitely worth seeing, you just have to watch it critically, like with most things.
__________________

__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 06-21-2007, 09:32 AM   #32
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,974
Local Time: 01:37 AM
Thanks. I am definitely seeing it-if my crappy suburban megaplex shows it of course. They did have Fahrenheit 9/11.
__________________

__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 06-21-2007, 10:39 AM   #33
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
ntalwar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,900
Local Time: 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Our system is pretty good - the way you hear it described in the US as horrible and with huge waitlists is a lot of fearmongering garbage.
When I visited Montreal once, a Canadian tour guide also took a swipe at the health care system there. He pointed out a hospital and said it offers free surgery, as long as you are willing to wait a few months (or something like that).
__________________
ntalwar is offline  
Old 06-21-2007, 01:53 PM   #34
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,272
Local Time: 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by ntalwar


When I visited Montreal once, a Canadian tour guide also took a swipe at the health care system there. He pointed out a hospital and said it offers free surgery, as long as you are willing to wait a few months (or something like that).
I think this is very misunderstood. If you need emergency surgery, you get it immediately, obviously. If you need surgery for which there might be a waiting list....you wait. That doesn't mean you're sitting there waiting for a brain tumor to be removed for 3 months! All it means is that you're prioritized based on need. I mean, elective surgery in the States works similarly - when they can schedule you in. Maybe if you are Paris Hilton, you can walk into a hospital and pay $3 million for them to perform a knee replacement that afternoon, I don't know. But for regular Americans, you will also have to wait a week or two or whenever the surgeon and OR are available. It's not like a McDonald's where you walk in and get fast food.

For all this talk of Canadian waitlists...you'd think the courts would be inundated with people suing over access to healthcare and wrongful death. But there isn't an open floodgate there so that should tell you something given what a litigious society we have become.

Everywhere in the world you WAIT for services. Maybe the tour guide thought he was being funny or something.
__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 06-21-2007, 02:14 PM   #35
The Fly
 
Smallville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The South
Posts: 160
Local Time: 12:37 AM
I would love to see a documentary on social medicine, but I refuse to see anything by Moore.

Anyone know of any less biased documentaries on social medicine?
__________________
Smallville is offline  
Old 06-21-2007, 02:17 PM   #36
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,974
Local Time: 01:37 AM
From what I have read and heard it's equally biased against Republicans and Democrats. Most viewers can see his biases, doesn't mean the film isn't worth seeing.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 06-21-2007, 02:21 PM   #37
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,473
Local Time: 01:37 AM
i want to see it simply because i'm less concerned with what Moore is saying and more concerned with how he says it.

everyone is saying that this might be his best film from a filmmaker standpoint -- love him or hate him, or take him for what he is, he's a very skilled documentarian.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 06-21-2007, 02:36 PM   #38
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
ntalwar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,900
Local Time: 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


Everywhere in the world you WAIT for services. Maybe the tour guide thought he was being funny or something.
Obviously it's more of a wait for elective surgery.
There are Canadian medical tourists, just as there are American ones. According to the numerous online articles on medical tourism, many Canadians go abroad for surgery because of the long waits and Americans go because of the high costs.
__________________
ntalwar is offline  
Old 06-22-2007, 10:24 AM   #39
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,974
Local Time: 01:37 AM

Wow, he had some nerve asking him to take that out. Begging him..

Washington Post

Moore Says Weinstein Wanted Clinton Scene Cut

By Politics
Friday, June 22, 2007

Michael Moore is getting a lot of mileage out of the hit he takes on Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) in his provocative new movie "Sicko," which made its Washington premiere Wednesday night at the Uptown theater.

Moore said after the premiere that movie mogul Harvey Weinstein, a personal friend and supporter of the Clintons whose company financed the film, "begged" him to remove a scene exposing Hillary Clinton as the second-highest recipient of campaign donations from the health-care industry.

"I said, 'No, Harvey. I gotta do the right thing.' He understood."

Moore said he didn't know whether the Clintons asked Weinstein to make the call.

The film describes her as "sexy" and "sassy" as photos of Clinton over the years are splashed on the screen.

After her health-care overhaul plan failed, Clinton went "silent" -- as Moore put it -- on the need for health-care changes. And then she began raking in the dough -- big time -- from the industry when she started running for office.

Clinton's campaign had no comment on Weinstein's attempt to have the scene removed.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 06-22-2007, 11:48 AM   #40
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,272
Local Time: 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by ntalwar


Obviously it's more of a wait for elective surgery.
There are Canadian medical tourists, just as there are American ones. According to the numerous online articles on medical tourism, many Canadians go abroad for surgery because of the long waits and Americans go because of the high costs.
Well that is true - no system is perfect. That said, I'd rather have ours than yours, every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

ETA: I've lived in 4 countries - 3 in Europe and then Canada. They all had similar systems. You wait for elective surgery and it's debatable how "long" the wait is. Sometimes, it can be quite long, sometimes it's standard. But you know it's a uniquely American demand that you have what you want the minute you want it and if you can't have it, that's a disaster. It isn't at all how the rest of the world operates and their medical systems are fine. The Europeans (and Canadians) are thinner, healthier and live longer than you by and large. And that's despite some wait times for elective surgery. So when you compare the health systems, to me, it's a no brainer which one I would choose in my situation. If I were Bill Gates, sure, park me at the Mayo Clinic and serve my every need.
__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 06-22-2007, 12:06 PM   #41
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,615
Local Time: 11:37 PM
I waited three months in the US for surgery I absolutely needed last fall, and during the wait, I was in the emergency room three times. The reason I had to wait so long is because there is only one surgeon in the entire country who does this particular procedure. Why? Because this procedure is 100% effective in saving a woman's reproductive organs, making hysterectomies completely unnecessary except when there's cancer. But there's too much money to be made in performing hysterectomies so let's not have this other procedure covered by insurance.

The healthcare system in the US sucks big time. I'm looking forward to seeing "Sicko."
__________________
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 06-22-2007, 12:08 PM   #42
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
randhail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Outside Providence
Posts: 3,557
Local Time: 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


The Europeans (and Canadians) are thinner, healthier and live longer than you by and large.
This speaks to the overall problem with healthcare. Many Americans just don't care about their health until they're faced with some sort of crisis. Some sort of basic universal primary care is what's needed. This would help to educate the people as to the importance of living a healthy lifestyle, but the education can only take you so far. People have to WANT to live healthy lives, but many many people could care less and then bitch and moan about how terrible and expensive the system is. Obviously, basic primary care can't solve all of the problems like most forms of cancer, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, etc, but there is no reason at all why anyone should still be smoking or eating diets that keep cardiologists in business.

I truly believe that their will never be a true universal healthcare system put into place in this country, which is a good thing. The insurance companies and big Pharma will never let it happen because they stand to lose everything. What I can see happening is what's in place in Massachusetts requiring everyone to have some sort of health insurance, but even that is probably years away from happening.
__________________
randhail is offline  
Old 06-22-2007, 12:08 PM   #43
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
ntalwar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,900
Local Time: 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


Well that is true - no system is perfect. That said, I'd rather have ours than yours, every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

ETA: I've lived in 4 countries - 3 in Europe and then Canada. They all had similar systems. You wait for elective surgery and it's debatable how "long" the wait is. Sometimes, it can be quite long, sometimes it's standard. But you know it's a uniquely American demand that you have what you want the minute you want it and if you can't have it, that's a disaster. It isn't at all how the rest of the world operates and their medical systems are fine. The Europeans (and Canadians) are thinner, healthier and live longer than you by and large. And that's despite some wait times for elective surgery. So when you compare the health systems, to me, it's a no brainer which one I would choose in my situation. If I were Bill Gates, sure, park me at the Mayo Clinic and serve my every need.
You really seem to hate the US.
__________________
ntalwar is offline  
Old 06-22-2007, 12:25 PM   #44
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,615
Local Time: 11:37 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by ntalwar


You really seem to hate the US.
How did you get that from her post? Americans are fatter and unhealthier than their European counterparts (that's a fact), and she prefers their health system to ours. Where's the hatred?
__________________
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 06-22-2007, 12:29 PM   #45
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,655
Local Time: 12:37 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by ntalwar


You really seem to hate the US.
__________________

__________________
BVS is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com