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Old 06-30-2007, 11:50 PM   #136
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I saw SICKO this evening. I deliberately saw it opening weekend to help the box office take. It is my way of voting with my pocketbook.

Michael Moore is a great American and a true patriot.

America is broken, and it needs to be fixed.
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Old 07-01-2007, 03:47 AM   #137
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Good grief please, please tell me you're joking. The man who made Bowling for Columbine and Fahrenheit 9/11 is a great person? Are you fricking kidding me? What the heck kind of drugs are you on? Whether this film is more accurate or not, the majority of his work was meant to decieve. Is that really a good thing in your eyes?

He's a LIAR. How can you honestly tell me he's a great American when he intentionally decieves people?

Good God some of you absolutely amaze me.
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Old 07-01-2007, 04:36 AM   #138
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl
I saw Michael Moore on Larry King last night and he was great. Really great, articulate, kind, reasonable, handled tough questions excellently. Hope to see the film this weekend.
I agree - caught the replay of Larry King this evening

I hope to see the film soon as well. If you can't look at America and see there is a healthcare crisis, then I don't know what to tell you.

as for shart's comment

as always, backs out of FYM quickly!
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Old 07-01-2007, 02:51 PM   #139
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Could someone tell me why they find this liar to be a respectable guy? It really does upset me to see that Moore is respected by some. I'd like to know how some of you are willing to completely overlook the fact that he's a liar and claim he's a great guy.
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Old 07-01-2007, 03:10 PM   #140
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Could someone tell me why they find this liar to be a respectable guy? It really does upset me to see that Moore is respected by some. I'd like to know how some of you are willing to completely overlook the fact that he's a liar and claim he's a great guy.
I believe he loves this country and wants to see it made better. If you saw the movie, and saw the quality of life in the UK, Canada and France as depicted therein, you would want to move tomorrow.

The benefits of the Cuban health system is a harder sell for me. Yes, they have top-notch medical care, but any society in which people are encouraged to spy on each other is not a good place, IMHO. One of my favorite people in the world fled Castro's Cuba in the '60's, and brought back photos of the crumbling infrastructure after a visit, apartments with walls missing and the like. SICKO made me think about what I consider more important...5 cent medication and being afraid of speaking your mind, or expensive medication and the ability to say that you dislike the current Administration. In Europe and Canada, they don't have to make this choice.

Quite frankly, it makes me giggle how Michael Moore riles up the Right, like the prospect of a Hillary Clinton presidency does. And if the choice is agreeing more with that fat loudmouthed filmmaker or a certain skinny blonde harridan I can think of...I'll take the fat guy.

I tend to stay away from FYM, because I'd rather discuss politics among like-minded people, such as the folks at DailyKos. But every once in a while I like to wind up the conservatives among us.

"What heck kind of drugs are you on?" Hey...I'm high in life!!!!!
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Old 07-01-2007, 03:58 PM   #141
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Originally posted by Diane L



The benefits of the Cuban health system is a harder sell for me. Yes, they have top-notch medical care, but any society in which people are encouraged to spy on each other is not a good place, IMHO. One of my favorite people in the world fled Castro's Cuba in the '60's, and brought back photos of the crumbling infrastructure after a visit, apartments with walls missing and the like. SICKO made me think about what I consider more important...5 cent medication and being afraid of speaking your mind, or expensive medication and the ability to say that you dislike the current Administration. In Europe and Canada, they don't have to make this choice.


This is by far his best film.

This film can and should be judged on its own.

It is not part of a trilogy like "Star Wars".


I was a bit apprehensive about the Cuba part before I saw the movie.

I am glad it was included.

As for the crumbling buildings and deteriorating infrastructure?

Is it the Cuban government's fault solely or is the U. S. led blockage the larger contributing factor?

We currently only have 5 Communist countries:

China

Vietnam

Laos

Cuba

North Korea


Look at the Chinese economy and trends towards capitalism, the same can be said for Vietnam.

President Bush just had a photo op at the White house with the Communist leader of Vietnam. There were many Vietnam Americans protesting outside, that had been tortured by this regime. Not to mention 60,000 Americans killed in VN. But we have trade relations with Vietnam. And Vietnam is moving towards market economies.

I believe the Cuban exiles and pandering elected officials have contributed to the prolonged suffering of the Cuban people.

Engagement will do more to change Cuba and what we have been doing has only made things much worse than they need to be.

Why do we have engagement in China and Viet Nam and not Cuba?
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Old 07-01-2007, 05:00 PM   #142
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Originally posted by Diane L


I believe he loves this country and wants to see it made better. If you saw the movie, and saw the quality of life in the UK, Canada and France as depicted therein, you would want to move tomorrow.

The benefits of the Cuban health system is a harder sell for me. Yes, they have top-notch medical care, but any society in which people are encouraged to spy on each other is not a good place, IMHO. One of my favorite people in the world fled Castro's Cuba in the '60's, and brought back photos of the crumbling infrastructure after a visit, apartments with walls missing and the like. SICKO made me think about what I consider more important...5 cent medication and being afraid of speaking your mind, or expensive medication and the ability to say that you dislike the current Administration. In Europe and Canada, they don't have to make this choice.

Quite frankly, it makes me giggle how Michael Moore riles up the Right, like the prospect of a Hillary Clinton presidency does. And if the choice is agreeing more with that fat loudmouthed filmmaker or a certain skinny blonde harridan I can think of...I'll take the fat guy.

I tend to stay away from FYM, because I'd rather discuss politics among like-minded people, such as the folks at DailyKos. But every once in a while I like to wind up the conservatives among us.

"What heck kind of drugs are you on?" Hey...I'm high in life!!!!!
His message in this particular movie may be true (I generally agree that the US's health care sucks), but that doesn't erase the fact that he shamelessly uses deception as a means to persuade peope to see things his way. I haven't seen any articles debunking this movie yet, so I can't say this movie is another one of his lies.

Still, you can't discount the fact that his other movies are trash on an educational level. Yes, I agree that he's extremely smart and a great film maker, but he's still a liar. I just don't understand people's love for him. It's like... he BLATANTLY lies and somehow people keep cheeringhim on. I was watching him on Leno one night, and Leno was just raving about how much he respects Moore's work.

Why? It's so full of deception. It's not something to just shrug off and pass as entertainment because this stuff is meant to educate more than anything. It's a sad day when some of the most respected people in our country are blatant liars. Yeah, politicians are no saints, but EVERYONE knows this guy is a fat lying weasel and they still love him. It's like he's sitting on his couch, eating donuts and laughing to himself "hahahaha. Man I can just keep feeding these people complete lies and they'll still eat ip up!!". It's like he doesn't even need to defend himself anymore because everyone knows he's a liar and they've become fine with it because the like what he's saying. It's pathetic and shameful.

Again, this film should be judged on its own merits, but calling Moore a great American is just downright ludicrous.
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Old 07-01-2007, 05:09 PM   #143
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If he is such a liar then his rhetoric and be defeated with factual reasoned arguments, launching a wave of ad ad hominem fat jokes and calling him a liar (a propagandist he is but he can wield the facts to suit his ends and make the impresion he wants).

Why get so pissed off with him? Unapologetically biased characters are good.
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Old 07-02-2007, 05:23 AM   #144
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I don't see what your point is. He's incredibly desceptive and incredibly influential. That's not a good combination. If he's so confident in his beliefs maybe he should educate us by telling the truth instead of BS.

Again, why people respect this guy baffles me. I've talked to people who said things like "I just saw Bowling for Columbine ad it was great! Moore is awesome!"

I'll tell them that it's been proven that the "documentary" was highly innacurate and full of deception and they get this "um... so what?" attitude.

It's pathetic. Do people except Moore's huge shortcomings just because they've become so obvious? Moore may as well come out and say "hey everyone my movies were complete bullcrap" and his fans would say "yeah we knew that all along. We liked what we heard so what's the problem?"

I don't really know how to explain my point any further because it's so incredibly simple.
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Old 07-02-2007, 06:51 AM   #145
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You haven't substantiated the claims that he lies, you could at least go after him for declaring the nihilistic fascists in Iraq "Minutemen".
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Old 07-02-2007, 08:39 AM   #146
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Are you fricking kidding me? What the heck kind of drugs are you on?
That's rather rude-Diane is a thoughtful and intelligent person. The health care system in this country is a majorly f'ed up mess and a complete embarrassment for the good ole USA.. Any person who can sit and watch stories about people literally dying because their insurance companies deny them treatments and dismiss it because they hate Michael Moore-well what kind of drugs are they on? Is everything in it 100 % factually accurate? No. But from everything I have read and seen about it's his most accurate and unbiased movie to date. The bottom line fact is that the insurance companies actually reward employees who deny claims and they are all about making profit. Michael Moore didn't make that up, unfortunately. Profit above all else, including human life. And the govt does nothing because they're all in bed with these people.

Yahoo movies

"Sicko," Moore's dissection of the ills of U.S. health care, played in 441 theaters, about half the number for his last movie, 2004's $100 million hit "Fahrenheit 9/11." With a $23.9 million opening, "Fahrenheit 9/11" did five times as much business, though.

Still, "Sicko" had the second-best documentary debut ever behind "Fahrenheit 9/11." By comparison, "Ratatouille" opened in nearly 4,000 theaters, about nine times as many as "Sicko."

Harvey Weinstein, co-chairman of the Weinstein Co., said he wanted to roll "Sicko" out slowly to give it a longer shelf life and keep Moore's stand for universal health care on the front burner.

"The idea is to hold during the summer and just continue to build this thing," Weinstein said. "I just think the debate in this country is going to catch up with the movie, so we've got to keep it slow."

Weinstein and Moore said they hoped "Sicko" would do in the range of the $21.6 million total for the filmmaker's 2002 Academy Award winner "Bowling for Columbine."
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Old 07-02-2007, 10:45 AM   #147
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
If he is such a liar then his rhetoric and be defeated with factual reasoned arguments, launching a wave of ad ad hominem fat jokes and calling him a liar (a propagandist he is but he can wield the facts to suit his ends and make the impresion he wants).

Why get so pissed off with him? Unapologetically biased characters are good.
His rhetoric is defeated by his failure to induce change...

"Roger and Me" didn't curb big business.

"Bowling for Columbine" didn't usher in significantly stricter gun laws.

"Farenheit 9/11" didn't get John Kerry elected.


I still like him as a filmmaker.
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Old 07-02-2007, 10:50 AM   #148
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His rhetoric is defeated by his failure to induce change...

So now we are suppose to expect movies to change the world?
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Old 07-02-2007, 11:13 AM   #149
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So now we are suppose to expect movies to change the world?
Michael Moore seems to think so or he wouldn't make the type of films that he does.
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Old 07-02-2007, 12:20 PM   #150
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I don't think that's really a fair commentary on Moore so much as it is on the complacency and sheer laziness of the middle class.
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