Michael Moore - brilliant and uplifting

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phillyfan26 said:


Bullshit. I'm 16, and I don't feel like I've been degraded due to my age in this forum.

And I thank you for your ability to think. :) Like I said earlier, not everyone needs vast life experience to develop compassion, thank goodness, or even logic, for that matter.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


I'm sorry, but this is your problem, you are all over the place, you don't care that 99% of your points are wrong, you keep trying to justify your beliefs with something... The truth is, you never did.

You haven't. Not even close. Show one that hasn't been buried.

It's just not an issue you are very well versed in, don't take offense...

I would quote them, but it is not worth the argument.
 
phillyfan26 said:


Bullshit. I'm 16, and I don't feel like I've been degraded due to my age in this forum.

yes, you are also a liberal who has supported everything they have said. of course you would get along.
 
struckpx said:


I would quote them, but it is not worth the argument.

No, please do. Maybe I missed something? From what I recall it was "universal health care sucks" and then "my government's inept to administer it."

You also alluded to some bad experience with Canadian health care, but despite my asking twice, wouldn't elaborate.
 
VintagePunk said:


No, please do. Maybe I missed something? From what I recall it was "universal health care sucks" and then "my government's inept to administer it."

You also alluded to some bad experience with Canadian health care, but despite my asking twice, wouldn't elaborate.

struckpx said:
I have many problems with Michael Moore. While I find his documentaries to be funny, he gets too personal. Here is a man who has made butt loads of money from his various documentaries, yet do you see him helping the needy w/ it? He is a hypocrite.

In the movie, he totally promotes the Canadian health care system, yet anyone who knows it would tell you that it has huge faults. Yes they have cheap drugs, but you have to wait months due to the shortage of doctors. Imagine waiting 4 weeks for heart bypass or 8 weeks for an MRI. This socialized health care that they have is destroying the quality of it. The only good thing is being an American there, b/c they help you extremely fast.

In general, I have noticed (not specifically here) that people who are for the movie and this idea of universal health care go along with the idea just because they do not back the current US government. Please, really consider all of the dimensions, other than doing it just because you don't like Bush. If this were to occur everyone, rich and poor, would pay greatly in the amount of their paychecks. I love it when Bono says, "Thanks for spending your hard earned on a U2 show." Just think w/ the higher taxes that would be set forth from this health care, that we would have less to spend on the rock shows.

At the same time, we need to ask why health care costs is so high? Let me spell a little out for you. It begins w/ the doctors: if they didn't have to worry about patients suing them w/ huge lawsuits all the time, their insurance would go down, then our insurance could go down, etc. etc.

While our system has it faults, do you guys honestly think socializing health care would be better? There are so many alternate ideas that would be much more effective. It would be a lot higher taxes for all of us and the quality and competitiveness of it would decrease greatly. Look at Europe, you do not hear that much happening there regarding medical innovation. We need to keep a free market so new ideas and competitiveness can continue to flourish.

Michael Moore should not criticize health when he is fat as hell.

Most importantly Moore doesn't even mention the reality side of his "so called" health care phenomenon of ideas. In reality, health care involves about a sixth of our national economy, hundreds of government programs, thousands of private insurance plans and hundreds of thousands of health care workers. In his movie he doesn't mention this, he just gives these main ideas: Americans are exploited, insurance companies are bad, politicians are ineffective.

Great ideas Mr. Moore

here's a question for you, who i am getting the feeling supports government run health care idea:

think about other government agencies, such as the post office and how long you had to wait in line there, or maybe at the DOL waiting for a new drivers license, or the time it took after Katrina. Is this the type of health coverage you want? This is what will happen w/ universal health care? There will be more suffering, deaths, and of course, higher costs.

Throughout the movie he talks about HMOs. Well, the use of those have decreased drastically b/c they were rejected by employers and patients, and proves that the free market system works, thanks to congressional lobbying.

Regarding your question, this could help:
- require the costs of all healthcare services to be published publicly, so there is competition for insurance.
- increase financial grants and incentives.

those are the big ones that i can think of.

Tell me where in there I do not present any arguments and where I say "universal health care sucks." Please read the whole thing before commenting, thank you.
 
regarding canada, my friend got into a terrible, really bad snowboarding accident at whistler there. it required surgery, and the service was not what we would expect. i am surprised that he even allowed them to operate on him, I wouldn't, but they went ahead and did. however, we were not pleased with the overall service.
 
oh so because the man is fat he can't comment on the health system? Get real. You obviously can't see past your hatred for him, so obviously nothing is getting through - too bad for you!

Also your comparison of higher taxes= less concerts or somesuch, is ludicrious. Your government is there to help, as much as it fucks you around. I personally would not like to live in a country where people would rather see me die then pay for an operation to help me. THAT is the bottom line. Can't you see that?
 
struckpx said:
i am surprised that he even allowed them to operate on him, I wouldn't,

No problem, we can toss you out on the street next time. You're probably more familiar with that system of medicine anyway.
 
struckpx said:
regarding canada, my friend got into a terrible, really bad snowboarding accident at whistler there. it required surgery, and the service was not what we would expect. i am surprised that he even allowed them to operate on him, I wouldn't, but they went ahead and did. however, we were not pleased with the overall service.

This really sounds like you wanted to refuse treatment because your waitress brought you luke-warm soup and didn't refill your water. Elaborate on what was frustrating?
 
dazzlingamy said:
oh so because the man is fat he can't comment on the health system? Get real. You obviously can't see past your hatred for him, so obviously nothing is getting through - too bad for you!


thank you for reading my comments. appreciate the comment on one line of 50.
 
anitram said:


No problem, we can toss you out on the street next time. You're probably more familiar with that system of medicine anyway.

Great response.
 
struckpx said:


yes, you are also a liberal who has supported everything they have said. of course you would get along.

I have explicitly stated to you in the commute thread that I'm not a liberal. It's clear to me now that you don't read people's posts.
 
struckpx said:








Tell me where in there I do not present any arguments and where I say "universal health care sucks." Please read the whole thing before commenting, thank you.

I did read the entire thing, when you first posted, and just now. Wow. People have addressed almost all of your comments, either directly or indirectly. There are also a few that don't even merit a response.

You obviously do not use the exact words "universal health care sucks," but that's the essence of what you're saying.

And, like you're accusing others of, you've conveniently avoided many well thought out points that are counter to your position, as well. :huh:

Again, you were asked to elabourate on the Whistler health care "bad service" experience.

Props to whoever said that it reminded them of a restaurant order gone wrong, that's the first thing I thought of when reading it, too.


[personalsilliness] phillyfan26, I want to marry your avatar and have 1,000 of its babies. :cute: [/personalsilliness]
 
By the way, if you saw Michael Moore on Larry King you might remember this:

KING: We another e-mail from Jeanetta in Phoenix, Arizona. The question: "Michael, "Sicko" is all about the health care crisis. You're not exactly a picture of health yourself. How about eating better and losing some of that weight, Big Guy?"

MOORE: That's right. I agree 100 percent. I was in the middle of working on this movie, and I thought, you know, Mike, it's pretty hypocritical, you're making a movie about health care and you're not taking care of your own health. So I started to do that and I started to go for a walk every day. And now, you know, I walk for half an hour to an hour every day. I eat fruits and vegetables. These were actually great discoveries, by the way, fruits.

KING: Fruits, they have been around a while.

MOORE: I realized that and I've been avoiding them. But I've lost about 30 pounds now in the last three months. And now, I'm on the right path and it is one way to fight the system. If you want to avoid the broken system, one way to do that for a lot of people is to eat the right things and get out and move around a little bit.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0706/29/lkl.02.html
 
VintagePunk said:

[personalsilliness] phillyfan26, I want to marry your avatar and have 1,000 of its babies. :cute: [/personalsilliness]

My avatar reacts to your statement as Jim did when Meredith told him his haircut was "sexy hot."

"...Oh..."
 
Lila64 said:


MOORE: I realized that and I've been avoiding them. But I've lost about 30 pounds now in the last three months. And now, I'm on the right path and it is one way to fight the system. If you want to avoid the broken system, one way to do that for a lot of people is to eat the right things and get out and move around a little bit.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0706/29/lkl.02.html

Well, there we go. The ultimate solution.
 
struckpx said:


Well, there we go. The ultimate solution.

Yeah, the guy whose fingers got chopped off and the woman who was maimed in a car accident should have eaten more fruit so as to avoid the pesky problem of no insurance.
 
VintagePunk said:


From the (albeit brief) reading I've done, I haven't seen where the UK has a two-tiered health care system. Here's what I found:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_systems



If I'm understanding correctly, that's how it is here in Canada, as well. Our health care system covers all doctors visits, hospital stays, surgeries and treatments, and medical testing.

Supplemental health insurance that is available here from many employers covers things like dental care, prescription drugs, eyeglasses, and alternative health care services such as chiropractic, registered massage therapy, podiatry, etc.

Obviously, you're better off, and have a wider range of options available if you have supplemental insurance, but regardless of that, at least we're not dropping in the streets or going facing financial disaster, because either our private insurance companies are denying coverage for essential medical treatments, or because we're not insured in the first place.

If I'm misunderstanding the situation in the UK, please elabourate.

Completely private care a la US system is available, as well as supplemental care policies which can cover a lot more than you mention, things like elective surgeries for which there are otherwise long waiting lists, not to mention surgeries for more urgent items.
 
I don't know if this was asked earlier of you struckpx, but since you are a teenager...

Do you have health insurance? Do you pay the premiums? Do you know what kind of coverage you or your family has? If you're covered under your parents policy, do you know how much they pay and if it's a 'benefit' of their job? Do you really have any clue how much it costs the MIDDLE CLASS for healthcare, not even considering low income/those without. Do you have a job? Do you really have a clue what it costs in this country? If you are comfortable/well off, this is much less an issue than it is for the MILLIONS of Americans that fall into the 'Middle class'. My health insurance alone, for my husband and child, will almost surpass my monthly house payment. :der: This may be the wrong thread for this, but I just had to put that out there

\end rant

like the new av phillyfan :up:
 
Lila64 said:
Do you really have any clue how much it costs the MIDDLE CLASS for healthcare, not even considering low income/those without.

I think he made it clear that he has no clue when he said "anyone who worked can get health insurance..."
 
Lila64 said:
I don't know if this was asked earlier of you struckpx, but since you are a teenager...

:eyebrow:

Hey Lila,

Don't you know you are supposed to read the entire thread before posting.


deep 07-04-2007 01:08 PM said:


How much real experience have you had with health care?

Are you paying for health insurance now?

 
Well that would mean he would have to read the thread too, no? :eyebrow:

And I did admit that I didn't know if it was asked earlier. I didn't have a chance to keep up on the 4th, after all it was my kid's birthday :)

:kiss:
 
When I was 17
I was riding a motor cycle 100 miles an hour wearing a pair of cut offs and flip flops, no helmet.

I was not thinking of
or caring about health insurance.
 
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thats funny, b/c a few others who are posting here are also young members. so, just because i don't agree i get the 'age' thrown back at me, yet they do agree so they don't. well, that further solidifies my argument then.
 
struckpx said:
thats funny, b/c a few others who are posting here are also young members. so, just because i don't agree i get the 'age' thrown back at me, yet they do agree so they don't. well, that further solidifies my argument then.

Uh, you said they didn't argue with me because I'm liberal, which was blatantly incorrect, so I would stay away from assumptions.
 
phillyfan26 said:


Uh, you said they didn't argue with me because I'm liberal, which was blatantly incorrect, so I would stay away from assumptions.

yes, as should you.
 
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