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Old 04-14-2005, 07:55 PM   #16
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Bonovox - I'm talking in generalizations. Obviously, there's no way to know if the child has an unhealthy home life or developmental problems, etc. That's why I made the "assuming he's a normal child" disclaimer.

Of course, there could be mitigating circumstances that would cause an outbreak similar to this, but that wasn't the issue I was addressing. I'm referring to the teaching of what seems to be so prevalent in society today... "It doesn't matter what I did - I'm not responsible because (insert reason here)". We have to learn to be accountable. The hypothetical situation I used of passing kids who don't deserve it just to keep their self-esteem intact was just an example.
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Old 04-14-2005, 08:11 PM   #17
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I don't mean to suggest that my generation was better but many of the actions of today's kids never happened in my day.
If only you were right

"Emmitt Till Case – 1955
The famous case of a black youth shot for whistling at a white woman in Mississippi. "

"Victoria Zielinski Murder – 1957
A 15 year old cheerleader is bludgeoned to death with a baseball bat. "

"Michael Farmer Murder – 1957
A teenage street gang kills a young boy."

Crimes of "The Babysitter":
September 1972: Teenager Donna SERRA is strangled in Ray Township.
January 15, 1976: Cynthia CADIEUX (16) abducted the day before, is found raped and bludgeoned to death. Her naked body is lying on a rural road in Bloomfield Township. Her corpse had apparently been dragged over snow covered pavement, her clothes piled fifteen feet from the body.
January 19, 1976: Sheile SHROCK is raped an shot death in Birmingham inside her home.
February 13, 1976: Mark STEBBINS (12) leaves the American Legion hall in Ferndale, heading homeward early afternoon. His corpse is found February 19, lying in the snowy parking lot behind an office building. According to the coroner Mark was killed appr. 36 hours earlier, sexually assaulted, his body carefully cleaned and exposed for discovery.
August 8, 1976: Jane ALLAN (13) is abducted while hitchhiking in Royal Oak. Her dead body is found August 11 at Miamisburg (OH) poisoned with carbon monoxide.
December 21, 1976: Jill ROBINSON (12) disappears from Royal Oak, her body discoverd December 26 near Troy, laid out neatly in a roadside snow bank. The cause of death had been a single short-range shotgun blast. The corpse had been carefully scrubbed. This time there is no evidence of sexual assault.
January 2, 1977: Kristine MIHELICH (10) vanishes on a short walk from her Berkley home. Her body, laid out in a funeral position, is found January 21, in Franklin Village, not far from the location Cynthia CADIEUX had been discarded one year ago.
March 16, 1977: Timothy KING (11) disappears in Birmingham. Timothy´s mother begged for the safe return of her son through TV, promising his favorite chicken dinner on his return.
March 23, 1977: Timothy´s corpse is discoverd in a roadside ditch near Livonia. Timothy was suffocated apparently, his body scrubbed and manicured, his clothing cleaned and pressed. Medical examination confirmed sexual assault and a last chicken dinner before death.

Need I even mention Martha Moxley (1975)?


All of those I found after maybe 2 minutes of Google. Kids killing kids, adults killing kids, human beings torturing fellow human beings.......doesn't matter what decade you're from, you will find it.
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Old 04-14-2005, 08:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by BluRmGrl
Bonovox - I'm talking in generalizations. Obviously, there's no way to know if the child has an unhealthy home life or developmental problems, etc. That's why I made the "assuming he's a normal child" disclaimer.

Of course, there could be mitigating circumstances that would cause an outbreak similar to this, but that wasn't the issue I was addressing. I'm referring to the teaching of what seems to be so prevalent in society today... "It doesn't matter what I did - I'm not responsible because (insert reason here)". We have to learn to be accountable. The hypothetical situation I used of passing kids who don't deserve it just to keep their self-esteem intact was just an example.
I know, I understand.

But this predicament you speak of, also refers to a previous problem that society has which is pushing children too hard. We have parents and teachers pushing 10 year olds to excel and succeed at sports or academics which maybe they have no desire or ability to succeed in. I had several friends who grew up in homes where there parents tried to live vicariously through their children. It's a problem in both directions.
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Old 04-14-2005, 08:24 PM   #19
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This is about kids harming kids. I agree people have been harming children since time began but rarely in the past did children resort to the cruelty which is sadly becoming a common event in the world today. Many of the examples listed above are child abductions ending in tragedy which we still have today. You can probably find instances of children harming children in years past but I doubt to the extent of the events of the past ten years or so.

And when referring to my day, I mean we may have poked fun at someone for whatever reasons, teased or whatever, shit, I was a victim of prejudice my whole life and still have to listen to idiot remarks but never would we have considered molesting a disabled person in front of others with someone videotaping it. I mean that is just unbelievable and boggles the mind.
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Old 04-14-2005, 08:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
We have parents and teachers pushing 10 year olds to excel and succeed at sports or academics which maybe they have no desire or ability to succeed in. I had several friends who grew up in homes where there parents tried to live vicariously through their children. It's a problem in both directions.
You're exactly right. It's sad that we so often offer up our children as a sacrifice (if you will) in the eternal quest to not just keep up with the Joneses, but leave them gasping in our dust. Forcing kids into endeavours that they have absolutely no interest in and then demanding that they excel in said endeavours isn't going to give the child "character"; it's not necessarily going to ensure a college degree or a successful career. At best, it'll give the parent another "trophy" to show the world their superiority. At worst, it'll form an unremovable wedge between parent and child and could easily lead down a path similar to what the parents of that young boy who wielded the bat may now face.
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Old 04-14-2005, 09:05 PM   #21
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For perspective, the youth crime rate has steadily fallen over the years, while the media reporting has exponentially risen. In other words, 20-30 years ago, this stuff still happened; we just never heard about it.

A pity nonetheless.

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Old 04-14-2005, 09:19 PM   #22
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OK fine, I just don't remember ever hearing of incidents in a one day period like these two stories preceded 2 weeks ago by the school shooting in Minnesota. Maybe I'm naive so I will shut up about the whole thing. This is how I have perceived what is happening today and if these events are normal, I'm glad I'm not having kids.
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Old 04-14-2005, 09:20 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by trevster2k
OK fine, I just don't remember ever hearing of incidents in a one day period like these two stories preceded 2 weeks ago by the school shooting in Minnesota. Maybe I'm naive so I will shut up about the whole thing. This is how I have perceived what is happening today and if these events are normal, I'm glad I'm not having kids.
For every person murdered, there's billions of people who survive to the next day. That's what's not reported.

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Old 04-14-2005, 09:25 PM   #24
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Another horrible story, gawd this is so depressing. Sorry to post this.

San Diego Tribune Apr 13, 2005

TIJUANA – Three teenagers have been arrested in connection with the brutal killing of a family Friday. The victims were a mother and her three children between the ages of 4 and 8.

The husband of the woman also was stabbed and beaten during the attack but escaped the assailants. The man, Miguel Ibarra García, was being treated at a hospital.

Advertisement
State police believe Ibarra's 15-year-old brother killed Ibarra's wife because she had been "nagging" him, according to a news release from the Baja California Attorney General's Office.

The boy believed he would have to kill the entire family to avoid detection, according to the release, and he apparently tried to kill Ibarra to prevent retaliation.

The victims were Anabel Villaverde Alvarez, 28, and her three children: Jair, 8, Ulises, 6, and Kenia, 4.

Anabel Villaverde was stabbed 17 times. Jair was strangled. Ulises was stabbed three times, and Kenia died after being stabbed eight times, police said.

State police said the 15-year-old killed the family and attacked his brother, then enlisted the help of two schoolmates to help dispose of the bodies and clean up.

State police arrested the three boys over the weekend, after collecting their blood-stained school uniforms, authorities said. Police said a fingerprint on a blood-stained knife was linked to the 15-year-old. They also said they found a hair from one of his schoolmates on 4-year-old Kenia.

The teenager told authorities he smoked marijuana before the attack so that he could find the courage to kill the family, according to the news release.
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Old 04-14-2005, 09:26 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by trevster2k


And when referring to my day, I mean we may have poked fun at someone for whatever reasons, teased or whatever, shit, I was a victim of prejudice my whole life and still have to listen to idiot remarks but never would we have considered molesting a disabled person in front of others with someone videotaping it. I mean that is just unbelievable and boggles the mind.
Detectives, MEs, and forensic technicians often say "if you can imagine it, no matter how disturbing, someone has done it." Things are not much different now as far as horrific crimes - what has changed is the amount of media exposure.

My little sister's best friend's dad was foreman of a jury hearing a local case where a high school boy raped his younger pre-teen sister, killed her, then ran after and killed his much younger kid sister in their yard after she saw the other sister dead and tried to run, and then killed his mother when she came home.
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Old 04-15-2005, 05:13 AM   #26
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It's not just kids- if anyone remembers that movie starring Jodie Foster several years back. It was based on a true story about a woman who was raped in a bar and some men there stood around and actually cheered. No one tried to help her.

It is so depressing that kids would do such a horrific thing. I don't know what the answers are, but something is terribly wrong.
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Old 04-15-2005, 05:55 AM   #27
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Both of these episodes are extremely sickening

I am not sure there are any explanations beyond that humans are capable of doing very sick things.
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Old 04-15-2005, 06:13 AM   #28
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I can't believe that they didn't arrest the 's who did this.
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Old 04-15-2005, 06:22 AM   #29
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Originally posted by BluRmGrl


Call me crazy, but I believe this type of behaviour (assuming the child was otherwise "normal") is the direct result of the whole self-esteem bullshit that school administrators are demanding be enforced. You know - the ole' "Don't fail Johnny with his substandard grades and poor attendance records because holding him back a year will embarrass him and cause him to feel bad about himself". Tough shit...the sooner you learn to handle disappointment and personal set-backs, the sooner you become equipped to take on the world. How else do you explain a 13-yr old with the kind of rage it takes to beat another human being to death? Maybe I'm too pragmatic or even cynical, but being teased because you lost your first ballgame of the season wouldn't seem a likely reason to bludgeon a friend TO DEATH (!) if you'd been taught early on that life isn't always delivered to your specifications.

And no, I don't have any children of my own, but that shouldn't mean that I don't get a say in how the next generation's being brought up -- these kids will be the ones taking care of us when we're in the Old Folk's Home. Do YOU want to be surrounded by a pack of heartless bastards with emotional hair-triggers and entitlement issues?!?!?? I know I don't.
Absolutely agree.

I'm a substitute teacher, and I do a lot in junior high, high schools, etc. Anyway, my experiences with mainly the administration (and also the students) have led me to the decision to NOT pursue a career in teaching. The whole system is so flawed it's unbelievable.
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Old 04-15-2005, 08:12 AM   #30
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
But to answer the question in the title: A big majority of what's wrong with a generation is the fault of the generation before. We need to start now, even if we don't have children of our own, to make a difference in this world.
The sins of the children usually stem from the sins of the parents.
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