MERGED (yet again): All Gay Marriage Discussion Here Please - Page 41 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-01-2004, 11:37 PM   #601
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BrownEyedBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: San Pedro Sula, Honduras
Posts: 3,510
Local Time: 09:26 PM
Now for the other end of the story. I am not sure which one melon posted a couple of pages ago but I found this one where the Bible does address homosexuality. This is for those who ask why gay priests are not allowed to continue in their positions.

This is in Romans Chapter 1 verses 24 -

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

However, I do believe in the separation of state and religion. But this mostly answers the question as to why Christians oppose homosexuality.

Cheers
__________________

__________________
BrownEyedBoy is offline  
Old 06-01-2004, 11:53 PM   #602
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 10:26 PM
*Sigh.*

This is plainly about *idolatry.* Do you need it any more clear than Romans 1:25? "Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen." Bingo. That line "into that which is against nature" is clearly an add-on line. It is not in any other translations, which I check against.

However, you have done *precisely* what I condemn about how people abuse the Bible. You have taken a disparate few verses and taken it *completely* out of context. Did you happen to read Romans 2:1?

"Therefore, you are without excuse, every one of you who passes judgment. For by the standard by which you judge another you condemn yourself, since you, the judge, do the very same things." - Romans 2:1

What you have quoted was a classic St. Paul moment. As this epistle is directed towards the Jewish Christians of Rome--who, may I remind you, he vehemently opposed, due to their ritualistic demand for adherence to the Mosaic Law--he first appeals to their sensibilities and then whacks them over the head with it. In other words, their disgust against pagan sex orgies should not give way to the fact that, by sneering at them in judgment, they are guilty of the same degree of sin. The only escape from sin, according to St. Paul, is the salvation of Jesus Christ. In other words, you've completely missed the point of Romans 1-2, and, in judgment of homosexuals for that passage, you are guilty of sin for passing such judgment.

The "uncleanliness" which he speaks of in Romans 1:24 is a clear reference to the Mosaic Law "purity codes" in the Torah, which, again, St. Paul was opposed to. Every single piece of Biblical scholarship points to the fact that this is a passage on *idolatry,* not homosexuality (which is a 19th century word and concept, mind you!), and if we didn't have biased translators, that fact would be clear.

I'm aware of the reasons why Christians oppose homosexuality, but I don't know how many times I have to tell them that their Biblical bases are wrong.

Melon
__________________

__________________
melon is offline  
Old 06-02-2004, 01:42 AM   #603
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BrownEyedBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: San Pedro Sula, Honduras
Posts: 3,510
Local Time: 09:26 PM
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet


I don't see how you argue agains this. And no one is saying anything about homosexuality not being a "recent" concept.
__________________
BrownEyedBoy is offline  
Old 06-02-2004, 02:22 AM   #604
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 10:26 PM
I need not repeat myself. Go reread Romans 2, in context with the end of Romans 1. The self-righteousness of the Jewish Christians who looked down upon those practices did not leave them any more righteous than the pagan Gentiles who engaged in the temple orgies. They were, in spite of their "cleanliness," just as guilty of sin. Jesus is the only means of defeating sin. That's his point. Thus, my dear, you are absolutely no more or less sinful than those homosexuals you decry.

But I'll leave you tonight with two passages:

"Owe nothing to anyone, except to love one another; for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. The commandments, 'You shall not commit adultery; you shall not kill; you shall not steal; you shall not covet,' and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this saying, (namely) 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does no evil to the neighbor; hence, love is the fulfillment of the law." -- Romans 13:8-10 (this is the point of Romans; to encourage a rejection of the Mosaic Law in favor of Jesus' commandment)

And a passage that gives me a good chuckle:

"Paul wrote things hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable distort, as they do the rest of scripture, to their own destruction! You, therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard lest, being carried away by the error of unprincipled people, you fall from your own steadfastness, but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, to whom is the glory, both now and to the day of eternity Amen." -- 2 Peter 3:16-18

Good night...

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 06-02-2004, 01:40 PM   #605
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BrownEyedBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: San Pedro Sula, Honduras
Posts: 3,510
Local Time: 09:26 PM
See, all you've done is turn it back at me and say "well you are a sinner too" (well ...duh) and you have bypassed the fact that all I am trying to prove is that the Bible at some point DOES condemn orgy-esque (not even sure if that's correct grammar) act.

I have nothing against gay people. There's a gay guy at my gym who keeps throwing compliments at me and I just laugh it off and joke with him. He's an alright guy and his homosexuality has nothing to do with his personality.

BUT, the fact the Bible condemns it somehow is undeniable.
__________________
BrownEyedBoy is offline  
Old 06-02-2004, 03:31 PM   #606
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
BUT, the fact the Bible condemns it somehow is undeniable.
Believe what you'd like. I've clearly told you why it doesn't, but you can lead a horse to water, and I cannot force you to drink it.

It is my overall belief that love is the point of all morality, and loving gay couples are no different. The Bible never mentions those, merely because it is such a foreign concept to the cultural consciousness...until the present.

Believe as you will.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 06-17-2004, 05:32 PM   #607
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 10:26 PM
And just when I thought that Bush and the "Pope" couldn't sink any lower than they already have...

http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/06/061304bushPope.htm

Quote:
But, one of the most experienced journalists at the Vatican reports this week that Bush implored the Pope to increase Catholic condemnation of gay marriage in the weeks leading up to the election, and that the request also was made by the president to senior Vatican officials..

John Allen Jr., writes in the National Catholic Reporter, an independent journal for Catholics, that Bush specifically "asked the Vatican to push the American Catholic bishops to be more aggressive politically on family and life issues, especially a constitutional amendment that would define marriage as a union between a man and a woman."

Allen, the most senior reporter at the Vatican, and considered the dean of the press corps, says that in a private meeting "with Cardinal Angelo Sodano and other Vatican officials, Bush said, 'Not all the American bishops are with me' on the cultural issues. The implication was that he hoped the Vatican would nudge them toward more explicit activism."
I hope they both rot in hell someday.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 06-17-2004, 05:48 PM   #608
Refugee
 
Klaus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a one of these small green spots at that blue planet at the end of the milky way
Posts: 2,432
Local Time: 04:26 AM
Interesting that the US President gives spiritual advices to the pope.

I don't like them but i hope they both are forgiven
__________________
Klaus is offline  
Old 06-17-2004, 06:26 PM   #609
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,693
Local Time: 09:26 PM
I can just picture God shaking his hand and saying, "Great the guy who's "supposubly talking for me" is now taking advice from a monkey.
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 06-18-2004, 12:41 AM   #610
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 19,271
Local Time: 09:26 PM
Yeah, I heard about that, too.

. Unbelievable. Seriously, that's just...wow.

Angela
__________________
Moonlit_Angel is online now  
Old 06-18-2004, 12:48 AM   #611
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,615
Local Time: 08:26 PM
At this point one has to wonder what kinds of skeletons Bush has in his closet. Methinks thou doth protest too much.
__________________
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 06-18-2004, 06:40 AM   #612
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 10:26 PM
I think the pope as well as God know this had to do with the election more than anything....

but slant it the way you want
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 06-18-2004, 05:02 PM   #613
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 10:26 PM
http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/06/061804amendVote.htm

Quote:
The Senate will vote on a proposed amendment to ban gay marriage the week of July 12. The announcement was made today at a Capitol Hill news conference.

The vote will come just two weeks before the start of the Democratic national convention, July 26 in Boston, and is seen as a way of embarrassing Democrats most of whom are opposed to the amendment.
For all those who have voted Republican in the past or will in the future, remember this: the blood is on your hands.

And I'll put it this way too: I'd rather never vote again than ever vote GOP. The Republican Party is dead to me; and if McCain and all those moderate/liberal Republicans want to do something useful, they can: leave the party. Otherwise, I hope they're voted out too, because they are allied with the enemy.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 06-18-2004, 05:51 PM   #614
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon
http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/06/061804amendVote.htm



For all those who have voted Republican in the past or will in the future, remember this: the blood is on your hands.
Those poor log cabin republicans.....the blood is on their hands too.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 06-18-2004, 06:49 PM   #615
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Those poor log cabin republicans.....the blood is on their hands too.
You're damn right.

Melon
__________________

__________________
melon is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com