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Old 04-21-2004, 03:32 PM   #556
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I've heard it said that many used Scripture to justify slavery - it was Scripture that led to the abolishment of slavery. We should remember that slavery was a secular institution.
A secular institution used by many of the church at the time who did in fact use scripture to justify it. Just like scripture can be used by both sides here.
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The Presbyterian Constitution was not changed after Van Kuiken was ordained. He made his representation regarding what he would follow. His actions show otherwise.
Who else to make change than from someone from inside?
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The Presbyterian Constitution and Book of Order has changed over the years. The change is done slowly and thoughtfully. To many, Van Kuiken is simply putting his beliefs/agenda ahead of Scripture.
No, he's putting his views above the churches written views. The Presbyterian church does not hold the absolute interpretation of the Scripture, if it had, it would never have had to change.
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Old 04-21-2004, 06:17 PM   #557
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader

The Presbyterian Constitution and Book of Order has changed over the years. The change is done slowly and thoughtfully. To many, Van Kuiken is simply putting his beliefs/agenda ahead of Scripture.
No, he's putting his beliefs ahead of church doctrine, which is how slow and thoughtful change can begin.
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Old 04-21-2004, 06:51 PM   #558
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If Martin Luther had maintained the status quo, the entire Protestant Reformation would never have existed.

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Old 05-16-2004, 06:33 PM   #559
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Good news from our friends at Reuters:

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CAMBRIDGE, Mass. (Reuters) - Same-sex couples will legally exchange vows on Monday when Massachusetts becomes the first U.S. state to allow gay marriage, an election-year milestone likely to fuel legal and political battles nationwide.
Quote:
May 17 is a historic day: It's the day that marks a new chapter of equality for gay and lesbian families," said gay rights activist Marty Rouse. "For the first time in U.S. history, we can receive the critical legal rights and protections that come only through marriage."
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Old 05-16-2004, 06:42 PM   #560
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Yay! .

I'm happy for these couples-hope their weddings all go well and they have long and wonderful marriages. . Congrats to them.

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Old 05-17-2004, 12:02 PM   #561
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I like this editorial by Howard Dean

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/edi..._gay_marriage/

"All Americans are diminished when we allow stereotyping to dismiss the worth of fellow Americans. All Americans are stronger, and the nation is stronger, when we judge people by who they are, not what they are. "
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Old 05-17-2004, 02:59 PM   #562
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Rock on, Dean! Couldn't agree more. .

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Old 05-17-2004, 03:06 PM   #563
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http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/05/17/sa....ap/index.html

Same-sex couples begin marrying in Massachusetts
Monday, May 17, 2004
CAMBRIDGE, Massachusetts (AP)

The first couple to receive marriage paperwork was Marcia Hams, 56, and her partner, Susan Shepherd, 52, of Cambridge. After 27 years together, they sat at a table across from a city official shortly after midnight, filling out forms as their adult son looked on.

"I feel really overwhelmed," Hams said. "I could collapse at this point."


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Old 05-17-2004, 03:13 PM   #564
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This is an auspicious day for freedom and the United States!


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Old 05-17-2004, 03:18 PM   #565
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Congratulations to Marcia and Susan. .

And thanks for highlighting that "27 years together" bit...quite an important thing for people to notice.

Angela
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Old 05-17-2004, 05:27 PM   #566
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Best of luck to all the happy couples!
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Old 05-17-2004, 05:42 PM   #567
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Hey, wait a sec...



...the world hasn't ended! My heterosexual committed relationship doesn't feel threatened!

WOW!
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Old 05-18-2004, 08:27 AM   #568
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This made me laugh..

http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...tion_in_ruins/
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Old 05-18-2004, 10:04 AM   #569
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Looks like this June is gonna be an extra busy wedding month!
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Old 05-18-2004, 03:47 PM   #570
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This made me laugh..

http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...tion_in_ruins/
Heh, that was rather amusing. .

Angela
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