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Old 03-15-2004, 03:57 PM   #466
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KINGSTON, N.Y. - Two ministers were charged with criminal offenses Monday for marrying 13 gay couples in what is believed to be the first time in the United States that clergy members have been prosecuted for performing same-sex ceremonies.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4533865/
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Old 03-15-2004, 07:16 PM   #467
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Ah...you beat me to it.

This is *precisely* why the separation of church and state is necessary! The government is now cracking down on a religious practice that, while the majority of religious groups may not support, it is within the rights of the minority to practice as they wish. After all, secularism is as much necessary to prevent religions from forcing their will on society, as much as it is necessary to protect minority religious views.

The irony, perhaps, is that marriage laws, in general, may be deemed unconstitutional by the sheer reality that government is clearly doing the defining of a religious institution. The best solution, all around, is to get government out of the business of marriage completely. Let government issue civil unions for people of all stripes--and let them have all the legal rights, etc.--while leave marriage to the religions to define as they please, devoid of any legal significance. Some European nations have done this for a long time (even though the civil aspect is still called "marriage," a religious marriage doesn't count; you have to go to a courthouse for a second time) which is probably why many of these same nations have little problem with the idea of same-sex marriage.

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Old 03-15-2004, 07:34 PM   #468
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Originally posted by melon

The irony, perhaps, is that marriage laws, in general, may be deemed unconstitutional by the sheer reality that government is clearly doing the defining of a religious institution. The best solution, all around, is to get government out of the business of marriage completely. Let government issue civil unions for people of all stripes
I would love the delicious irony of this. That those who are the most hysterical about the "sanctity" of their marriage may be the ones who end up not "married" at all. That they all will have civil unions in the eyes of the state. And that gay couples who choose a church that will marry them will be just as married as the straight couples.
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Old 03-18-2004, 07:36 AM   #469
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She Served Her Country But Army Vet Can't Get VA Loan Because She's A Lesbian

Posted: March 18, 2004 12:01 a.m. ET

(Racine, Wisconsin) Marilyn Riedel served her country and her president with distinction as an Army Captain in charge of the communications center for the presidential retreat at Camp David.

Throughout her career in the turbulent Cold War of the 1960s she carefully kept her sexuality a secret, and at one point supervised 130 soldiers.

Now 61, a vet, and severely disabled with Parkinson's disease, she depends on her domestic partner for everything.

Riedel is classified as 100 percent disabled and has trouble moving, drinking and eating. It's difficult for her to talk because her worsening Parkinson's disease makes her tongue quiver.

She needs a home that can accommodate her special needs. But, her army pension doesn't go far. Together, Riedel and her partner of eight years Connie Guardino, 58, would be able to carry a small mortgage and Riedel applied for a low-interest VA home loan.

The Wisconsin Department of Veterans Affairs rejected her because the state won't allow anyone but a spouse to be a co-applicant.

"A spouse is an individual who enters a valid marriage contract. Unless the law is changed, there is no way that we can change that," said Andrew Schuster, spokesman for the Wisconsin VA. "We go directly by the statutes. We don't have any authority to vary that."

Riedel can't understand the difference. Because of her medication condition she depends on Guardino for everything.

"This is a civil rights issue," said Guardino. "What's the difference?"
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Old 03-19-2004, 10:54 AM   #470
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I find it discusting!
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Old 03-19-2004, 11:03 AM   #471
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Originally posted by Kate1
I find it discusting!
I find a lot of things discusting, but I think hatred and intolerance rank as the two highest on my list.
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Old 03-19-2004, 11:25 AM   #472
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Are de-facto relationships void in situations like the one posted?
Just to make an already unfair scenario worse.

Kate1, which do you find disgusting, out of curiosity? The idea of homosexual marriage, or the article showing the discrimination?
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Old 03-19-2004, 12:06 PM   #473
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There goes the spelling again. You mean "disgusting" and I'm inclined to agree with BVS about hatred and intolerance. Do you have any form of coherent argument as to why you think homosexuality is wrong? Or are you just making un-educated, bigoted remarks for the sake of it?
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Old 03-19-2004, 03:07 PM   #474
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I find a lot of things discusting, but I think hatred and intolerance rank as the two highest on my list.
.

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Old 03-19-2004, 05:08 PM   #475
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As someone who is typing challenged and who suffers from difficulty spelling when suffering from my frequent headaches....since when is it acceptable to pick on others for their typos. I have seen Angela ask posters to not do that as it detracts from the points being made. There is no need to stoop to that level.

By the way....Kate...What do you mean? Please explain yourself because it seems that you have an issue with homosexuals.
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Old 03-19-2004, 05:10 PM   #476
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kate1
I find it discusting!
I find it incredibly wrong of you to type this response to melon. There are people who come to this forum who are homosexual and deserve to be treated with respect, just as you or I do.

I find this post to be disgusting and disrespectful towards a member of this forum.
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Old 03-19-2004, 05:11 PM   #477
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
Please explain yourself because it seems that you have an issue with homosexuals.
I'm sure it has to do with the "ick" factor. If only I could ban everyone that I found to be "icky"...

Bigotry never has a rational explanation, so why even try?

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Old 03-20-2004, 04:47 AM   #478
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
As someone who is typing challenged and who suffers from difficulty spelling when suffering from my frequent headaches....since when is it acceptable to pick on others for their typos. I have seen Angela ask posters to not do that as it detracts from the points being made. There is no need to stoop to that level.

By the way....Kate...What do you mean? Please explain yourself because it seems that you have an issue with homosexuals.
Dread,
I know this is will come across the wrong way because we disagreed in another thread yesterday, but what I want to say here has nothing to do with any of that, it's just a response to this thread alone.

I hardly ever criticise people's spelling either. I probably make enough of my own spelling errors and besides, it's the internet and nobody cares about the occassional typo as long as the post is still readable.

But you know what? If someone isn't well-informed enough to even spell "holy book" correctly then chances are they're also not well-informed enough to comment on contents of said book. Chances are if someone hasn't yet learned to spell "digusting" then they also haven't learned why it's both wrong and insulting to describe gay people as such.

I know it's stooping to their level, but I really don't see why when someone posts such an ignorant and insulting comment, people should be suprised that I respond with criticism.

Meh. I hate these stupid discussions more than anyone can imagine. (Referring to Kate's comments, not yours Dread.)
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Old 03-20-2004, 08:21 AM   #479
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I think it would be better to discuss the comment rather than the spelling, and I know it has been pointed out before.

I alos noticed according to her profile that Katie is 15. relatively short in the life experience area. I would think that focusing on her spelling rather than the issue, is not going to help her understand your point of view or mine.

I agree you that the comments are prettty insulting. I do not think we are going to change any minds with the spelling comments.
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Old 03-21-2004, 10:16 PM   #480
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May I pose a hypotethical situation? What if...in some strange psychological cataclism(highly unlikely but bear with me here) EVERYONE and I mean absolutely everyone decided to turn gay and get married? How would the species carry on? Everyone would be married to people of the same sex so reproduction would be out of the question...

If this occurred would you even think about encouraging same-sex marriage?

(BTW, I just wanted to see what you thought...I don't agree with same sex marriages but that will never give me the right to try to enforce other people to think like me.)

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