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Old 03-04-2004, 07:49 AM   #361
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Originally posted by Blacksword
Nor do I think gays are going to hell for one sin which they have little to no control over, (save in the as yet undecied possibility that homosexuality may may be reversible in at least a certain percentage of individuals should they desire it - and even then I don't think anyone is going to say such a changeover would be easy).
There are programs out there, most of which are run by various evangelical protestant groups (sorry guys, but it's true), which claim to be able to "cure" homosexuality. These groups have been discredited wholesale by organizations like the APA, their "success" rates are appallingly low, and even when people "succeed" and are "turned straight," they usually go back to being gay within a couple of years.

It reminds me of a very old cartoon I have pinned to my bulletin board: Two guys are standing outside a church which displays a sign saying, "HOMOSEXUALS! COME IN AND BE TURNED INTO A RIGHT-WING RELIGIOUS ZEALOT!!!"

The one guy turns to the other and says, "I'm afraid the cure is worse than the condition."
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Old 03-04-2004, 10:44 AM   #362
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Oh I'll agree with that. Most of the so-called deliverance groups I've heard of end up doing more harm than good. All I'm saying is that the possibility still exists that at least for some homosexuals unwanted same-sex attraction could be reversed. The problem with the data out there is that both the Gay and Lesbian lobby and the Right-Wing Evangelical lobby, each grab on to every new finding that confirms either view in the slightest and blows it out of proportion. Both sides of this issue are guilty of distorting the facts. More balanced research needs to be done on this issue with a lot fewer sweeping statements by activists in either camp.
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Old 03-04-2004, 11:18 AM   #363
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All I'm saying is that the possibility still exists that at least for some homosexuals unwanted same-sex attraction could be reversed.
How about instead of curing someone's perfectly natural sexuality, we cure the bigotry of a society which would make them feel ashamed of it?
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Old 03-04-2004, 11:24 AM   #364
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Oh I'll agree with that. Most of the so-called deliverance groups I've heard of end up doing more harm than good. All I'm saying is that the possibility still exists that at least for some homosexuals unwanted same-sex attraction could be reversed.
So can straight people be "turned gay"?
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Old 03-04-2004, 11:32 AM   #365
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So can straight people be "turned gay"?
Isn't that another of the homophobes fears? If we have gay characters on tv or openly gay publications, then all of a sudden straight people will start turning gay!
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Old 03-04-2004, 01:00 PM   #366
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if i were a girl, i would have been a lesbian
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Old 03-04-2004, 02:24 PM   #367
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I have been reading some of this lenghty thread and I have to say I am a bit surprised.

First of all - I am surprised that more people have not come out and stated that they are against the idea of homosexuals being able to marry. Either all the news that I have been watching is wrong in declaring that a majority of the country (US) opposes gay marriage, or some people here are not stating their true opinions. I hope that the truth lies in the former.

Whenever a debate turns to religion, I always ponder the same thing. In my mind it is a small experiment. I always wonder (no matter what the discussion is), if there was a child that was born of 'no religion,' and was never taught about religion, and certainly was never swayed to be part of any religion, how would that adult react to the given debate.

Picture a boy in a bubble, or someone who was never told of the Bible, Tora, Koran, or any other religious text (I am not partial.) When this child grows to be an adult, what would be the factors that would sway his decisions?

Now image a planet full of these people. To some, that would be hell, but to many of us, that would be paradise. As many of us believe the only reason for war and suffering is religion, imagine a place where there wasn't any.

Now back to the subject, I digress. I would like to ask all the people who are basing their opinion on gay marriage on their religious beliefs to try to (as impossible as it is - if you are a true believer) to forget everything they knew about religion and state valid reasons why two of age consenting adults who love each other should not be allowed to be married. What specific (read scientific, or anthropomorphic) reasons would there be to keep these two people from getting a piece of paper saying they are legally married.

Here is a link to what I found a great article in the New York Village Voice written by a lesbian who has been with her partner for over 15 years:

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0409/conaway.php

I read an article like this and wonder why the hell someone like me is allowed to get legally married (as I recently did), and someone like the author cannot be.

It boggles my mind and upsets me greatly when I hear the opposing argument as it almost always starts with religion.

I am beginning to believe that any stance President Bush takes is a clear indication as to which direction I should sway my thoughts and beliefs. CLEARLY in the opposite direction.

I am a full believer in gay marriage and hope that this subject gets put to rest smoothly and in the interest of a group of people who at the very least want nothing more than being able to be legally united with someone they love.
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Old 03-04-2004, 03:27 PM   #368
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Originally posted by ouizy
I always wonder (no matter what the discussion is), if there was a child that was born of 'no religion,' and was never taught about religion, and certainly was never swayed to be part of any religion, how would that adult react to the given debate.
Why, that would be ME!!!

I haven't posted in here in awhile, mostly because I do not have a vast knowledge of politics or religion and do not have an arsenal of quotes with which to defend my opinions. I also get too depressed by much of what is discussed in FYM, but I nonetheless have strong opinions and couldn't resist responding to that.

I am completely devoid of religion, and have absolutely NO knowledge of the Bible or any other religious text for that matter. I am learning things bit by bit as people try to fill me in. I live my life by what I perceive to be common human decency and good sense, (even though this is not apparently going to have any bearing on my salvation)!

While I have not been programmed by religion to behave a certain way, I do agree with the whole concept of "treat others as you would yourself". Based on this principle ALONE, one should never impose one's beliefs either through moral peer pressure or law, on someone else.

Really, if we were all animals in the jungle there would be no need for marriage at all, we would just be with our mate, and it would all be very simple. But because we live in such a complicated society, we need to have to have all these laws and protections. Rights such as these should be available to everyone, it's as simple as that. What matters is that we are all citizens of this world, entitled to all the rights therein.
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Old 03-04-2004, 03:39 PM   #369
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kudos to you Mrs. Edge
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Old 03-04-2004, 03:57 PM   #370
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What matters is that we are all citizens of this world, entitled to all the rights therein.


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Old 03-04-2004, 04:06 PM   #371
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Ouizy, that was a really great post.

Nice to see you in here, btw.
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Old 03-04-2004, 04:31 PM   #372
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Ouizy
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Old 03-04-2004, 04:33 PM   #373
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Originally posted by paxetaurora
Ouizy, that was a really great post.

Nice to see you in here, btw.
what she said

And Mrs. Edge
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Old 03-04-2004, 04:41 PM   #374
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


So can straight people be "turned gay"?
I am always happy after a good joke. Some kids think I am the gayest teacher around because of my happiness.
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Old 03-04-2004, 04:44 PM   #375
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Originally posted by Mrs. Edge

I am completely devoid of religion, and have absolutely NO knowledge of the Bible or any other religious text for that matter. I am learning things bit by bit as people try to fill me in. I live my life by what I perceive to be common human decency and good sense, (even though this is not apparently going to have any bearing on my salvation)!
I am willing to bet my salvation on the fact that someone who lives a decent life, helping others ect.....Has a wonderful place in the house of God. Sorry, there are many rooms in my father's house and no one on this planet is the doorman.
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