MERGED (yet again): All Gay Marriage Discussion Here Please

[joyfulgirl]

Published on Tuesday, May 18, 2004 by the Los Angeles Times

Scandal's Shame, Massachusetts' Pride
by Robert Scheer

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0518-10.htm

What a wonderful image of democracy and tolerance the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts has presented to the world by allowing same-sex marriages. At a time when elements of the U.S. military machine have perverted homosexual acts into a form of torture, the sight of responsible and joyful gay adults freely choosing the commitment of marriage could not be more timely.
...
In the end, the irony is grim: The U.S. military bans openly gay soldiers but apparently does not effectively screen out heterosexual sadists. Meanwhile, at home the president tries desperately to make an election-year issue out of preventing free adults from civilly consecrating same-sex partnerships.

Unfortunately, there are many in this country, at least in the political class, who claim to support the rights of the individual abroad while struggling to limit them at home. Yet, as with classic images from earlier civil rights movements, such as that of a poised black girl walking to school through a jeering crowd, the dramatic scenes of joy and love now unfolding in Massachusetts are likely to be looked back upon by future generations with a "what took us so long?" relief.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

In the end, the irony is grim: The U.S. military bans openly gay soldiers but apparently does not effectively screen out heterosexual sadists.

Originally posted by joyfulgirl
Unfortunately, there are many in this country, at least in the political class, who claim to support the rights of the individual abroad while struggling to limit them at home.

Do you realize how depressing it is to know that both those statements are true?

Originally posted by joyfulgirl
Yet, as with classic images from earlier civil rights movements, such as that of a poised black girl walking to school through a jeering crowd, the dramatic scenes of joy and love now unfolding in Massachusetts are likely to be looked back upon by future generations with a "what took us so long?" relief.

. Amen to that.

I was reading an article in the People magazine tonight talking about the end of segregation. And I just don't understand. People look back at segregation now with a kind of attitude. Why in the hell, then, is there even a debate over homosexual rights now? Why are some of the same people who would denounce racism willing to discriminate against homosexuals? I don't get it. I really, really don't.

Bah. Anyway, again, applause going to Massachusetts for being so bold to allow gay marriage to happen. It's about time.

Angela

 

[martha]

It's just us in here now, isn't it? The antis and the fence-sitters have gone away, haven't they?

 

[Scarletwine]

Yes. But then I guessw they ran out of arguements against the basic civil rights of hte issue.

Joy for those in Mass.

 

[anitram]

It will be interesting in 50 years, whether the children of those people so opposed to gay marriage and equality will look back and wonder who were the people who tried to suppress it, like people wonder today what sort of mentality wanted to preserve segregation.

 

[martha]

I visited Little Rock and Memphis last summer, and I saw the pictures of those white parents and students with the hate and venom in their faces. I wanted to ask the park ranger in Little Rock if anybody knew where those people were now, if those people ever make themselves known. I didn't ask. I imagine that the same thing will indeed happen in fifty years. At the museum dedicated to this civil rights struggle there will be pictures of straight people filled with hate and venom, or worse with the Scripture quoted in posters, and my grand-nieces will want to know if those people ever make themselves known as the ones who hated in the name of God and what they thought was right.

 

[pax]

REMOVED

 

[Dreadsox]

Anti's and Fence sitters...LOL

The war is not over Martha. This is a battle that was won. The chaos will begin if the MA Constitution is ammended to ban it.

Dang so if we do not post in the thread we are an anti or a fence sitter.....Melon you better post soon.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Dang so if we do not post in the thread we are an anti or a fence sitter

Where do you get that from the observation that none of the "antis and fence-sitters" have posted here recently?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

REMOVED]

And I don't see how comments like who's not posting in here anymore, etc are productive. It's already starting problems I'm not trying to tell anyone else what to post, that's just my useless 02. I've mostly just read this thread and been afraid to post...

I have my opinion on this issue, but I respect and try to understand the opinions of others, as long as they're not stated in a malicious or hateful way toward gay people or coming from that viewpoint. Obviously I understand how, if you're homosexual, it is a far more important and personal issue.

This issue does divide some people, but bottom line it should be about love

*steps off pollyanna soapbox *

 

[Dreadsox]

And I don't see how comments like who's not posting in here anymore, etc are productive. It's already starting problems I'm not trying to tell anyone else what to post, that's just my useless 02. I've mostly just read this thread and been afraid to post...

You made my point better than I could.

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

I still think the way I used to except I no longer see any point in posting it. So, I don't see how ''the battle was won" (?)

 

[martha]

And so we see why I avoid FYM at all costs now.





Buh-bye

 

[pax]

Um, hi.

I did not make that post.

MrsSpringsteen, I hope you were not offended.

 

[Dreadsox]

What?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Um, hi.
I did not make that post.
I hope you were not offended.

No, I wasn't offended paxetaurora, but I was confused..knowing the way you are around here, I didn't think you would ever say anything like that..but I just jokingly went along w/ it, even though the post didn't make sense to me

I'd like to know what happened though

 

[pax]

We're not sure.

Elvis is working on it.

Thanks for understanding. If you have any other questions, please e-mail me; I'd rather stay on the original topic in this thread.

 

[wolfeden]

2 cents from Massachusetts...

Love is love is love.

Some need to be reminded God is Love, Not Hate.

Proud of my state for finally allowing equal access, and standing up to its carpetbagging "governor" from Utah.

Basic rights for all. It's about friggin time.

 

[pax]

What is the story about Romney? Could you elaborate?

 

[wolfeden]

What is the story about Romney? Could you elaborate?

well, how so? how did he get elected? or what's his friggin problem? or all of the above?

 

[pax]

All of the above, how about?

 

[Dreadsox]

Romney has been called a carpetbagger because he lived in Utah for a few years while working on the olympics. He returned home to MA to run for Governor. He ran for Senate almost 10 years (Maybe less) against Teddy "Water under the Bridge" Kennedy.

Because he was gone, many people felt he should not have been allowed to run, including the sitting female Republican Governor who was forced to drop out because the republicans were not going to support her at the convention.

 

[wolfeden]

Romney pulled a lot of rude tricks, including the fact that for the time period he _claimed_ he'd been living in Belmont, MA, his tax papers indicated he'd in fact declared Utah his primary residence for that time.

He bullied Jane Swift out of the race altogether.

His win came in part because the Dems ran a raggedy campaign and put forth a candidate in whom there was little to no faith among the voters.

 

[Dreadsox]

The Dems ran the candidate that won the nomination. The State has elected Republican governors for over ten years now. Weld, Celluci, Romney.

The Republican Convention nominated him because he was the best candidate. Jane Swift had a scandal or two that was not going to help.

The Dems elected the most qulaified person running. She lost fair and square.

 

[wolfeden]

eh, I think the Dems blew it by not backing Birmingham a little stronger...

mind you I'm not a Democrat so in the end I dislike most parties pretty much equally...
I've been registered to vote but "unaffiliated" all along...

I lived in Western Mass too long to have any sympathy for Swift; she was an idiot when she was the Great Barrington rep and she was still an idiot as Lt. and Acting Governor.

But back to our own "Slick Willy", or Willard, as his given name shows, Romney....

 

[DrTeeth]

Back on topic with an article from The Washington Post:

As gay marriage emerges as an issue in the 2004 U.S. presidential election, Australia and Canada share America's preoccupation with the issue, according to leading online news sites. In both countries, the issue divides public opinion and influences party politics. But in much of the rest of the world, the issue of gay marriage is only just beginning to surface.

The debate in Australia most closely resembles the controversy in America. Like President Bush, Prime Minister John Howard, leader of a conservative coalition, strongly opposes gay marriage. Like the U.S. Democrats, the more liberal Labor party is divided.

And from another article:

In a move homosexual rights activists have called a "pre-emptive strike against gay marriage," Australian Prime Minister John Howard is considering changing laws to prevent Australian courts from recognizing same-sex unions that are solemnized abroad.

Seems like the Iraq issue is not the only reason John Howard needs to get his ass kicked.

 

[melon]

1.2%. Remember that figure, because in Belgium, a year after they legalized same-sex marriage, that is the number of same-sex marriages performed in relation to the number of total marriages performed in the nation. Thus, 98.8% of marriages in Belgium were still performed by heterosexual couples.

So here America is, making a stink about 1.2% marriages. Compare that to the 50% of marriages that end in divorce; yet, there is no constitutional amendment to stop that. Oh no...how dare heterosexuals be inconvenienced?

As usual, this is a conservative wedge issue, not so different from their previous wedge issue involving race, or when they tried to pass an amendment banning flag burning; there had been two flags burned over the past decade. I wish America and the rest of the world would wake up--same-sex marriage doesn't affect them, just like the vast majority of heterosexual marriages don't affect me either, merely because I do not know, nor will I know even a small fraction of the 300+ million people who live here in the U.S. Let people live and let live. It is, after all, about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...or so they say.

People are just really dumb I guess.

Melon

 

[NameOfLove19]

*pops head in* My goodness, there are a lot of posts here. So here's just another opinion......

I'm a really serious, active ally. My primary argument for gay marriage is not the whole "it doesn't affect you" thing- though that's quite valid. People in LGBT (and A) community are REAL PEOPLE who deserve equal rights. The evidence that sexuality is genetic is increasing. I think it's shameful that people point the finger at gays and call them disgusting and immoral. People said that about desegregation and interracial marriage years ago, didn't they? And so that's how I view the struggle for gay rights- it's like the battle for civil rights. In my time, gay marriage will be legalized, just as desegragation and interracial marriage were. It just takes activism and patience.

 

[DrTeeth]

The evidence that sexuality is genetic is increasing.

Who cares if it's genetic or not!? I believe it is, but would homosexuality somehow be worse if it was nurture instead of nature? I really really don't understand why it would matter.

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

I found this little quote... Thought you guys might love it. As for me... no comment. some guy over at ilovephilosophy.com said it.


"I wouldn't care if a cowboy married his horse. I'd even dance at their wedding."