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Old 02-17-2004, 05:31 AM   #226
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Quote:
Originally posted by najeena
It's the people who don't or won't accept them that cause problems.
Exactly. It annoys me to hear people making the "well kids brought up by gay parents would probably be bullied" argument. Well, Black kids attending a previously all-white school were bullied, but does that mean segregation was a good thing? Women attending colleges that were once exclusively for men were treated badly to begin with, but that's not an argument for denying women access to college.

If society cannot accept people for who they are then it's society which needs to change, not the individuals who are just trying to live their life free from persecution.
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Old 02-17-2004, 11:20 AM   #227
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


the "well kids brought up by gay parents would probably be bullied" argument.
Which is a failure on the part of the parents of the bullies, who are more than likely straight by the way.
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Old 02-17-2004, 12:35 PM   #228
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And, by the way, there is NO evidence that the children of gay parents fare any worse than their counterparts raised by straight parents. The bullying argument is weak because the argument could just as easily be made that ALL bullying is wrong, and for that matter we shouldn't let our children (just to name a few bully-prone examples) do well in school, wear glasses or braces, play a musical instrument, or (if they are a boy) profess disinterest in sports. It's a blame-the-victim mentality, rather than blaming the bullies and the family/culture that raised them that way.
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Old 02-17-2004, 12:43 PM   #229
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I freaking hate bullies!
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Old 02-17-2004, 03:39 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha
Which is a failure on the part of the parents of the bullies, who are more than likely straight by the way.
Exactly.

And well said, everyone else. .

Angela
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Old 02-17-2004, 03:45 PM   #231
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I think this has become a preaching to the choir thread. The antis have left the building.
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Old 02-17-2004, 03:47 PM   #232
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I offered to switch sides...
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Old 02-17-2004, 07:11 PM   #233
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Dread, I didn't know you were a switch-hitter!
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Old 02-17-2004, 07:13 PM   #234
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Dread, I didn't know you were a switch-hitter!
I was waiting for that!!!
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Old 02-17-2004, 07:18 PM   #235
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Old 02-17-2004, 09:59 PM   #236
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Can anyone tell me, even hypothetically, a scenario where your mind would be changed, for either side? Any scientific evidence? Probably not, that would just be dismissed as biased I presented a non-religious argument, that was deemed not valid – I don’t think anyone’s mind will be changed from what they currently believe. I might change my mind if Jesus appeared to me and told me I was wrong, not that anyone would believe that that happened anyway, but who cares as long as I change to your way of thinking?
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Old 02-17-2004, 10:14 PM   #237
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Even if you could prove to me that Jesus is against it, it wouldn't matter because the U S of A has a separation of church and state. Jesus is against a lot of things that are legal in this country.

You could change my mind if you showed me solid evidence that proved someone would be harmed by allowing gay marriage, so far no one has.
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Old 02-17-2004, 10:32 PM   #238
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Hmm, guess I should start a thread about the whole seperation of church and state thing, as those five words together are not in the Constitution...
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Old 02-18-2004, 12:33 AM   #239
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonosloveslave
I presented a non-religious argument, that was deemed not valid
Your argument wasn't based on any laws at all; discriminating against a group of people simply because they're not fathers doesn't make any sense at all.

So, come up with a law-based answer and more people might be willing to entertain your position. Hell, even legitimate "scientific evidence" would be a welcome change from the hysterical screeches of "It diminishes my marriage to have gay people married" that we keep hearing on the evening news.
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Old 02-18-2004, 06:34 AM   #240
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees

....I suspect that many of those who oppose gay marriage do so out of nothing more than homophobia.
I personally suspect that while some of it is based on homophobia, in actuality a lot of could be more based on a personal view that it is wrong, yet that is then taken to mean it is a belief which the holder shares for ALL. Which is not always the case. Someone can very well make their own opinion why they feel it is wrong, and it doesn't extend to greater society. Kind of like saying "well I dont agree with it, but whatever works for you, good." It doesn't always mean they believe homosexuals should be denied rights etc. Does this make sense? Probably not. If I was of the opinion, 'I don't believe in gay marriage, I think homosexuality is not something I could be comfortable with personally, my opinions are based on religion/societal family values/whatever other reason, BUT these are mine and if anyone feels somehow differently and wants to marry a person of the same gender and do what they feel is right for them that is their choice and I fully support them in how they choose to live their lives'...Is that homophobia? Is it a contradiction? Is it so bad?
I really dont think anyone in here feels they have such a handle on what is right for all that they believe it should be the norm for all. I don't mean to put words in anyone's mouth here, but I don't think some of the personal objections based on a view which seems solely for any individual(s) in here is expressed as a means to encompass all.
/musing
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