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Old 03-17-2003, 04:25 PM   #16
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I already said there would be tears....
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Old 03-17-2003, 05:59 PM   #17
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We can continue to hypothesise all we want, but the last time there was cheering in Baghdad was 9/11.

Ant.
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Old 03-17-2003, 08:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony
We can continue to hypothesise all we want, but the last time there was cheering in Baghdad was 9/11.

Ant.
True.
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Old 03-17-2003, 10:05 PM   #19
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Hmmm...I seem to remember a certain well known band basing their concept for a tour off the premise that some people on this side of the world sat at home 'cheering' on the first Gulf War on their big screens like armchair football coaches.

Not that it makes it right on either side.
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Old 03-18-2003, 12:19 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony
We can continue to hypothesise all we want, but the last time there was cheering in Baghdad was 9/11.

Ant.
Is that fact or opinion?
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Old 03-18-2003, 03:08 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by pub crawler


Is that fact or opinion?
Pooly worded question. Should be: "Is that a fact or an assumption?"

Go ahead, tear me apart Anthony.
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Old 03-18-2003, 04:05 AM   #22
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Does anyone recall then, a time when Baghdad rejoiced after 9/11?
I dont. Do you have something in mind pub? A genuine question, as that really is the last I recall as well.
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Old 03-18-2003, 07:52 AM   #23
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Indeed, it is NOT an assumption, pub crawler; this was shown on BBC and CNN the day after 9/11. I am sorry if you missed it.

If you did, however, I would also like people to pay attention to the large demonstrations that have taken place in Baghdad against the so-called 'free world' where British and American flags are burnt to a crisp to the sound of the cheering masses. Again, not an assumption - it has been reported repeatedly time and time again. The relevant question is whether its a fact or I am indeed seeing things. I choose the former.

Ant.
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Old 03-18-2003, 08:59 AM   #24
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A big d'oh to me. I thought pub crawler meant a time after the rejoicing we saw of 9/11 up til now.
I think there were even pictures posted in here about it. ???

Anyways...
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Old 03-18-2003, 10:30 AM   #25
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Quote:
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Indeed, it is NOT an assumption, pub crawler; this was shown on BBC and CNN the day after 9/11. I am sorry if you missed it.

Ant.
Hi Anthony. Yes, I thought you were referring to the footage shown on CNN the day after 9/11. I didn't remember that celebration being in Baghdad. Indeed, I couldn't find any stories on the web confirming the celebration took place in Baghdad. Rather, it reportedly happened in East Jerusalem. I dunno, maybe you can show me differently.
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Old 03-18-2003, 10:33 AM   #26
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Quote:
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The relevant question is whether its a fact or I am indeed seeing things.

Ant.
No, actually that was not the question I was asking you. I was asking you whether or not you were certain the videotaped celebration of 9/11 (which I assumed you were referring to) took place in Baghdad. Simple question.
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Old 03-18-2003, 11:11 AM   #27
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Well, pub crawler, it was 'allegedly' to have been in Baghdad, I do remember that much. You must forgive me but it was sometime ago.

I do see your point, however, I really don't have the time or the inclination to get into a debate about the integrity and trustworthiness of our Media. Some people believe everything being fed to us is a fabricated lie, some people believe certain bits of it have been doctored, and some chose to believe that the media, though of course influenced, doesn't outright lie. Some believe in all and none of these depending on the scenario, and I include myself in such a group.

My point is; I don't think that many people in Iraq are waiting for the 'Free World' to 'liberate' them. They probably were almost a decade ago when the Kurds awaited military assistance to overthrow Saddam Hussein after certain tongues wagging unnecessarily in Washington and London, but instead got a cold shoulder and a blank stare; the 'Free World' wasn't in the liberating mood THEN - and how could they? It wasn't in the political schedule to 'liberate', it wasn't in their best interest to 'see freedom prevail'. Perfectly understandable. After all; the 'Free World' not only removes dictators when it is in its best interest to do so, but installs dictators as well. It even considers some dictators worthy of doing business with, and considers others to be the opposite.

I think there are more people in Iraq who are bitter, angry and unequivocally outraged. I think there are more people in Iraq awaiting to be royally screwed, for lack of a better expression, if the West's past history of involvement in the Middle East is anything to go by.

Ant.
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Old 03-18-2003, 11:19 AM   #28
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When I think of Iraq, I think of Stalinist Russia. Following his death on March 3, 1953, yes, people wept for their leader...and within a few years, he was one of the most hated men in Russian history. Iraq, as it stands, is a very tightly controlled and orchestrated nation. It is my guess that the cheers of 9/11 were less to do than sincere applause for the destruction of the U.S., but, rather, they were cheering, because, after so many years, they were taught to believe that the U.S. is a bad nation.

Whether it is true or not is not my perogative. "Perception" is the key here. I have a feeling that, a year from now, the Iraqi people will have vastly differing opinions, much like Russia's awakening after Stalin.

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Old 03-18-2003, 11:23 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony
We can continue to hypothesise all we want, but the last time there was cheering in Baghdad was 9/11.

Ant.
two words: fox news.
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Old 03-18-2003, 11:25 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
When I think of Iraq, I think of Stalinist Russia. Following his death on March 3, 1953, yes, people wept for their leader...and within a few years, he was one of the most hated men in Russian history. Iraq, as it stands, is a very tightly controlled and orchestrated nation. It is my guess that the cheers of 9/11 were less to do than sincere applause for the destruction of the U.S., but, rather, they were cheering, because, after so many years, they were taught to believe that the U.S. is a bad nation.

Whether it is true or not is not my perogative. "Perception" is the key here. I have a feeling that, a year from now, the Iraqi people will have vastly differing opinions, much like Russia's awakening after Stalin.

Melon
Excellent analysis.

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