MERGED: Unconstitutional!!! and Potential "Patriot Act" Expansion - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

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Old 02-14-2003, 09:11 AM   #31
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Scarletwine,

The link is not to the bill. I appreciate your constructive criticism. It is to a man's journal. When I read something like a journal, and check the main webpage that the journal is linked to, I have every right to question how valid a writing it is.

I asked respectfully for other links, and there are some respectable ones up there. If you prefer the "JOURNAL" that is put forward by the "Bigfoot Exists" site, that is your perogative.


PEACE
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Old 02-14-2003, 03:07 PM   #32
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Regardless of the man's other views, I posted the link because I feel the entry is well articulated and written. I don't believe in Christianity, and find it just as absurd as Bigfoot, but that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve a voice on the issue at hand - Patriot II. Nor does it mean I'll discount any well articulated and thoughtful piece by a Christian. To me, that's just as absurd! Though while it may be a bit helpful to learn of another's background before judging an unrelated viewpoint, I think this can also be a dangerous idea. It says: Just because you think "xyz", then it means your points on "abc" are wrong too, because I don't agree with your original and unrelated "xyz". Viewed in this light, and with the proper perspective, I think the journal entry is valid and can stand on its own merits.

I think it is in fact, very revealing in a way, because it shows just how seriously many people from all walks of life - the conservative, the liberal, the "out there on the fringe", the mundane, the religious, the non-religious - are all coming together to analyze and face what they see as a serious threat. I presented the piece because I thought it stood well on its own merits - but knew I would also receive controversery because it presents evidence that 9/11 may have been allowed to happen under the "problem/reaction/solution" idea that we've seen throughout history: WWI - Lusitania, WWI - Pearl Harbor, Hiter - Reichstag.

My heart breaks a little more every day. I fear for myself, my girl, my family, my friends, my Interferencers, my Country - and my World. I've finished reading the bill - the Justice Department calls it a draft, but its NOT a draft - it's a fully annotated bill. The fact this thing was brewing in secrecy apalls me. It begs the question - what are the motives of the J.D.? Actually, a lot of facts these days begs the question of what's going on. How can, after fully understanding the implications of this bill, any Constitution-loving Patriot vote for this thing is beyond me. Still, *maybe* there is a reason; but I haven't found it yet. I think the Justice Department *knows* this, and were obviously waiting for the psychological aftermath of another disaster to ram it through Congress without anyone reading it, like Patriot I. It begs the question, again, how much does the J.D. know about the next terrorist attack, and God forbid, would they even allow it to happen so that they may achieve their goals? As a means to an end? It's all the more dubious, when you consider that this act, and Patriot I, are essentially targeted towards Americans. It's not the first time the American people were made the enemy of the U.S. You may recall the infamous modifications done to the Trading With the Enemy Act by FDR. There has been little hard evidence so far that Patriot I has has made us any safer or it any easier to reduce terrorism. We were told - okay - just give up some of your freedoms and civil rights for a little while (sunset clauses in Patriot I) in exchange for protection from the big bad Osama. But we have constantly been told it's not a matter of IF terrorism will happen again, but WHEN. So the NEXT time it happens, we will see this bill, and we will be told - okay - now give up ALL your freedoms and civil liberties in exchange for protection. Notice the "temporary" is no longer there. That is because Patriot II REMOVES those sunset clauses. This is permanent folks!!! And big bad Osama is still out there to get ya. It's been one of the best magic acts this country has seen an administration pull - From Osama to Hussein. If the terrorist threat is SO dangerous and real right now, as indicated by our fear-inducing, duct-tape buying, HIGH Alert status, then WHY hasn't more of our effort and focus been on Osama!? Who's the more immediate threat?? Consistently, polls show the American people still think Osama. But even Big Brother needed an iconographic villain in 1984... When is it going to stop? It's the classic pressure-pot or boiling frog scenario: If you throw a frog into boiling water, it'll jump out - but if you throw the frog into cool water and slowly boil it - it'll be dead in 6 minutes.

And meanwhile as I boil, I weep for our Nation and the world. I pray for peace for all of us, and I appreciate everyone here who uses their God-given right to express themselves in healthy debate and voice their opinion! But such Free-speech will no longer be accepted under Patriot II, if the J.D. decides it's "terrorist" in any way. Patriot II leaves the J.D. essentially to define that. So what's "terrorist" action going to be in the future anyway? Anything critical of the U.S.....?

"This means that an appointed federal bureaucrat will have the power to strip you of your citizenship at will. Even if he does not use this power unwisely, it so degrades the value of citizenship as to demean and hold in contempt the validity of our national being, of our traditional valuation of the person, even of the Declaration of Independence, which states that human beings ďare endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights." Endowed by God, not by the state, and most certainly not revocable even by congress, let alone John Ashcroft." - Whitley Strieber
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Old 02-14-2003, 07:07 PM   #33
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I am not saying I am in favor of this. I am saying that all too often, people post questionable sources of information to make their points.

Now, that said, I enjoyed some of the links you provided above. I have not read anywhere.....at all.....from a credible source, that this bill allows your citenship to be stripped from you.

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Old 02-15-2003, 12:36 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I am not saying I am in favor of this. I am saying that all too often, people post questionable sources of information to make their points.

Now, that said, I enjoyed some of the links you provided above. I have not read anywhere.....at all.....from a credible source, that this bill allows your citenship to be stripped from you.

Peace
Somewhere it did say that if you were a supporter of a group that is a terrorist group, you could have your citizenship revoked. Although, again, this is not in writing in the form of a new bill. We have still not seen a copy of it officially.

When I do, then maybe I will get fired up.

Rock on Bigfoot....
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