MERGED ==> Ugh! Hurricanes! + A True Hero - Page 14 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-02-2005, 02:52 PM   #196
War Child
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Mission, KS
Posts: 982
Local Time: 05:08 PM
Wow, he is enraged!
__________________

__________________
tkramer is offline  
Old 09-02-2005, 03:25 PM   #197
New Yorker
 
sharky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,637
Local Time: 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by echo0001
Through this all, I keep remembering 9/11. The convoys of volunteers are relief supplies started rolling toward NYC within twelve hours from all over the U.S.

Where are the civilian volunteers? Where are the trucks full of water and food supplied by regular citizens determined to help? Why are we waiting for the National Guard, A.C.E., President, etc., to do all the work?
I think the big problem here is where do you start. First, there are so many places that need help -- it's not a centrally located disaster like WTC. And second, you can't really get to where you need to go. Too much debris in the roads. Besides, with gas prices the way they are, it's hard to pay to drive down there.
__________________

__________________
sharky is offline  
Old 09-02-2005, 04:22 PM   #198
War Child
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Mission, KS
Posts: 982
Local Time: 05:08 PM
I hate to say it, but this looks to be 3 or 4 times worse than 9/11 from a human loss/economic impact POV. Several news outlets are now stating (BBC, etc.) lives lost WILL top 10,000...

I remember being angered when the local governments were calling it "their tsumani" because that tragedy was just so huge, but maybe they are right on some level.
__________________
tkramer is offline  
Old 09-02-2005, 04:48 PM   #199
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
trevster2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,330
Local Time: 06:38 PM
Oh this is definitely worse than 9/11. 9/11 was a different kind of tragedy. I agree with the mayor and he is justified to be enraged. He along with the other mayors of the Gulf Coast feel helpless because there is a lot of talk and excuses but less action. They are doing a fair bit but still way less than needed.

They should have sent everything ever possibly needed for such a situation. A piecemeal solution whereby they assess the needs, request resources, and then wait for the resources to arrive is the dumbest solution ever for this catastrophe. They should throw everything possible, almost every possible National Guardsman or military person available should be sent to the region. Every available helicopter, bus, boat, doctor, rescue team should be sent to the region. If they are not being utilized, fine, they can turn around and go home. Would that be expensive? Sure, but who gives a F**k? Responding to "requests" is the lamest reasoning ever in why it takes time to get help there. Send in the works. Cost should not be an issue. I'm angry about this and it's not even my country or my fellow citizens but they are my fellow human beings.
__________________
trevster2k is offline  
Old 09-02-2005, 04:52 PM   #200
Blue Crack Supplier
 
kellyahern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 8 years and I still can't think of anything witty to put here
Posts: 34,698
Local Time: 06:08 PM
Some quotes by Ted Koppel last night, interviewing the head of FEMA:

RE: the discrepancy between FEMA's estimate of the number of people at the Superdome and Convention center (lower) and the Mayor's (higher). "One of you is wrong. It's either 5 thousand or 15 thousand do you know?"


"You keep saying you just heard about it today. Don't you guys watch television? Don't you guys listen to the radio? Our reporters have been reporting about it for more than just today."

"I would seem to me that the first thing you need to do is get some good solid combat troops like the 82nd airbone in ...instead you're sending the National Guardsmen in there and it's taking time. You don't have time."

"Here we are, essentially five days after the storm hit and you're talking about what's going to happen in the next couple of days. You guys do war games. You guys have gamed out what was going to happen in recent months after a force 3 or force 4 or force 5 hurricane... Of course you couldn't have known the levies would break. But you could have assumed it."

"Mr. Brown, some of these people are dead. They're beyond your help."
__________________
kellyahern is offline  
Old 09-02-2005, 05:04 PM   #201
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
trevster2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,330
Local Time: 06:38 PM
I have never seen the US media so confrontational with the bullshit coming out of the politicians mouths until now. Good for them, people are sick and tired of politicians and bureaucrats dodging questions and spinning their answers. Anderson Cooper was just confronting Trent Lott on CNN. Most of these politicians have no idea as to the horrors being experienced by the victims. Trent Lott was talking about how uncomfortable it is losing electricity to run a fan when it is so hot outside. Run a fan? Who gives a shit about running a fan? How about something to eat or drink? How about a place to sleep safely? How about being safe?

This is a sad event for America beyond the epic catastrophe itself.
__________________
trevster2k is offline  
Old 09-02-2005, 05:09 PM   #202
Blue Crack Supplier
 
kellyahern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 8 years and I still can't think of anything witty to put here
Posts: 34,698
Local Time: 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by trevster2k
I have never seen the US media so confrontational with the bullshit coming out of the politicians mouths until now. Good for them, people are sick and tired of politicians and bureaucrats dodging questions and spinning their answers. Anderson Cooper was just confronting Trent Lott on CNN. Most of these politicians have no idea as to the horrors being experienced by the victims. Trent Lott was talking about how uncomfortable it is losing electricity to run a fan when it is so hot outside. Run a fan? Who gives a shit about running a fan? How about something to eat or drink? How about a place to sleep safely? How about being safe?

This is a sad event for America beyond the epic catastrophe itself.
I saw that too. Anderson Cooper asked Lott if the lack of national guard was due to the Iraq war. Lott said basically, "Oh, it's just the media asking that question." Cooper said, "With all due respect sir, I was talking to a man today (he says the man's name, which I forgot ) and he asked the same question and wanted answers from you and other politicians."

What was great, is that later, Anderson is doing a story about people who lost their homes in Mississippi, and one of them is the guy he was talking about - and they show the guy on camera asking about national guard troop numbers and Iraq.

I think the reason is that the media is there, seeing people begging for help, seeing people die. The reporters at the scene are angry. NBC had a report from the airport in New Orleans. One of the reporters was helping feed and give water to a 93 year old man on a stretcher, basically acting as a nurse. He also said how he went to sleep and when he woke up, there were three bodies wrapped in sheets next to him - people who had died during the night.
__________________
kellyahern is offline  
Old 09-02-2005, 05:12 PM   #203
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
VertigoGal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: I'm never alone (I'm alone all the time)
Posts: 9,860
Local Time: 05:08 PM
While I realize it's a large-scale problem, the incompetence and lack of leadership from the government is astounding and ridiculous. It's not so hard to figure out you need to get some cargo helicopters to bring WATER to people, come on now. It's Friday, that was Monday. And then they send in troops to keep the peace because people are shooting. Why are people shooting? Is it because they're uncivilized poor blacks from the projects? Yeah, that's it! Why don't you send in some fucking water, I'd like to see what the President would be doing with a gun after going 3 days without a drink (and I'm not talking about alcohol, Mr Prez).

No one could stop the hurricane, but I'm disgusted with the response. (If there's some reason I shouldn't be, please let me know, perhaps my perception of the situation is incorrect.)

__________________
VertigoGal is offline  
Old 09-02-2005, 05:20 PM   #204
Refugee
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,435
Local Time: 10:08 PM
One thing that I wish would be getting more attention ON TV (not just the print media) is Condi Rice going to a Broadway play (
"Spamalot") and shopping for shoes in Manhattan on Wed. The Broadway audience booed her and one woman yelled at her in the store,
How can you be shopping when so many are stranded and dying" etc.

I always call George Bush "Your Highness" or "George the Third" but now he really IS living it with his "let them eat cake" attitude.

Of course he went through today but it is too damned little, too damned late. He can't say he couldn't have seen it coming, Sunday night everybody was expecting a Category 5 to score a direct hit and they were talking about NO turning into a moonscape. There's no reason why he couldn't have flown back to DC on Monday. We know Bush was being kepy updated by the hour Sun night becuase he made a statement "Let's pray for the people of NO" etc.

IMO, there are three shameful things that have embarrassed this country before the world this week:

1) The levee situation, when the Army Corps of Engineers requested more funding to complete the leee "updating" they were doing last year and were denided (that money is going to iraq of course--AND our men: one-third of the Lousiana Nat'l Guard is stationed over there; can that be why there were so little troops when we needed them??, Heck, they had to pull 300 troops BACK FROM IRAQ to handle this!)

2) The APPALLING COMMUNICATIONS SITUATION--and I just don't mean how nobody from Teus-Fri was coordinated in the rescue efforts ( do we rescue, stop looters, or both? Hell, if this is the way we are running the Iraqi war, NO WONDER the insurgents are having a field day). I mean THE TECHNOLOGY SUCKS. I mean cellphones not working etc, so that the media themselves had shoddy cell connections etc until Thurs. With 9/11 it was the same thing. I used to think that there was no way the phones could have been gotten back on, but I mean, people were calling each other on the London subway right after the bombings...And so many people in the convention center cut off from the outside world, etc. The Chinese must be shaking their heads right now. THERE IS NO EXCUSE why cellphone reception could have been repaired by Teus night. I know Aisian tech on this is better b/c I've talked to people who have been there.

3) and this is the REAL scandal--that there was NO WAY they were able to get those poor ppl out. Today, in most of the US cities, if you don't own a car, you're screwed. There are no trains, or public transportation system in most major cities. I can't beleive that the media are openly wondering why these people did not leave..most of these poor people (I mean in both economic and now tragic terms) COULD NOT get out. They took public trasnport, buses, etc to get around every day. It isn't like Boston, where there is a bit of local raliway system that you could hop on to get you 10 miles outside the downtown into the immediate suburbs, etc. There's NOTHING. This is more than a scandal, it's a DISGRACE. If we do not start to invest in a public transport system NOW (esp "bullet trains") etc, our country is going to have to pay a fearful reckoning. It's a shame that a place like Japan has beat us on this.
__________________
Teta040 is offline  
Old 09-02-2005, 05:25 PM   #205
Acrobat
 
echo0001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WV-USA
Posts: 349
Local Time: 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by trevster2k
Oh this is definitely worse than 9/11. 9/11 was a different kind of tragedy. I agree with the mayor and he is justified to be enraged. He along with the other mayors of the Gulf Coast feel helpless because there is a lot of talk and excuses but less action. They are doing a fair bit but still way less than needed.

They should have sent everything ever possibly needed for such a situation. A piecemeal solution whereby they assess the needs, request resources, and then wait for the resources to arrive is the dumbest solution ever for this catastrophe. They should throw everything possible, almost every possible National Guardsman or military person available should be sent to the region. Every available helicopter, bus, boat, doctor, rescue team should be sent to the region. If they are not being utilized, fine, they can turn around and go home. Would that be expensive? Sure, but who gives a F**k? Responding to "requests" is the lamest reasoning ever in why it takes time to get help there. Send in the works. Cost should not be an issue. I'm angry about this and it's not even my country or my fellow citizens but they are my fellow human beings.
I'm with you. We should be throwing everything we've got at this disaster. Cost should NOT be an issue.

I mean, consider how much it's going to cost in the long run; what's a few more bucks now?

"Responding to "requests" is the lamest reasoning ever in why it takes time to get help there. " totally

Why are we waiting to save lives? Is it only because the Federal government can't seem to get it's thumb out of it's ass and we have to wait for them before we do anything?

Donate. Yes, donate. But remember that right now water and food are the first needs and they are mighty slow in getting there.
__________________
echo0001 is offline  
Old 09-02-2005, 05:35 PM   #206
Refugee
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,435
Local Time: 10:08 PM
The only bit of reason Bush has uttered in this is his telling people yesterday to drive as little as possible. (You can imagine who threatened him with a dog collar and a cellcamera to get him to say THAT....). Today I heard people ahead of me in the post office chatting merrily asobut plans to go on a cruise next week. IMO< unless you have to, you shouldn't travel at all, unless it's for work or necessities or visitng family. No "frivolous" traveling, not even on a holiday weekned. Everyobdy knows the oil situation. I think right now, avoiding uncessesary driving is not only a patriotic duty but amoral thing to do. Again, it's that little thing called SHARED SACRIFICE,..which both the US govt and people don't seem to understand these days. I'm not talking about rescuers, etc, heroes of the disaster, or donors. But you know what I mean. We are so willing to throw out money and hope problems will go away. We don't realize how we can unwittingly add to a problem. Or think that someone else's problem isn't potentially our own. This should be like a WWII bond drive. People went without milk, butter, nylons, etc. to add to the war effort. Sure, it was not voluntary rationing, but nobody grumbled either. It was their duty. We should really stop and think that if there was ever a callto wake up and think about the way we live, it is now.

YOu can say that our leaders have a responsibilty to lead, but if we take the stop of REALLY CUTTING ODWN ON WAASTEFUL DRIVING, using less oil, etc, we'll send a powerful message that we ARE innterested in alternatives. On ABC they are saying that the Labor day weekend will go on as usual, and people aren't changing their travel plans.
__________________
Teta040 is offline  
Old 09-02-2005, 05:38 PM   #207
War Child
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 787
Local Time: 03:08 PM
I only saw the end of the report, so I'm really asking if I am mistaken somehow........that those in the Ritz-Carlton in NewOrleans have been evacuated and many have flown home from where they came????

I'm happy for those people, but what did I miss the last several days that would allow Ritz-Carlton guests to be singled out and prioritised...............or were they just incredibly lucky? There were over 300 of them.
__________________
jay canseco is offline  
Old 09-02-2005, 05:41 PM   #208
Refugee
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,435
Local Time: 10:08 PM
Maybe these were the 300 Vietnamese that were stranded that someone from the TImes-Picayune website sent an SOS about. They were stranded on a rooftop. Maybe they were boated to the hotel by a private rescue boat in convoys. I don't know..maybe they were foreign tourists; in that case it's the whole Phi Phi Island/whites getting top priority thing all over again. A lot of Vietnamese boat people apparently came and settled here in the late 70's early 80's b/c it was a fisherman's town and the climate was similar to Vietnam (hot humind, etc.)
__________________
Teta040 is offline  
Old 09-02-2005, 05:53 PM   #209
War Child
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 787
Local Time: 03:08 PM
Again, sketchy details are what I got, but one of the survivors at least was from the northeast U.S. and was calling from her home up there.
__________________
jay canseco is offline  
Old 09-02-2005, 05:54 PM   #210
Refugee
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,435
Local Time: 10:08 PM
PS. Verte, God bless...((HUGS)) And Dread and all others down there, still praying for you.

Just read all this thread so far...the storm surge in MI,about 30 ft?!?!? Whole towns wiped out...one town of 7000 wiped off the map....who knows if they evacuated??/They haven't even BEGUN to count a death toll.

Is it any good thing to say that it could have been worse? With a mile inland storm surge, what if this HAD been NO? The place would have been a moonscape in minutes. ALL the levees would have broken (there's now no doubt of that), and the hospitals, the convention center, possibly the Superdome itself, would have been mostly gone. In which case you would have been looking at an INITIAL death toll of at least 40,000 in NO alone (in those 2 buildings). The human cost is going to be high, but it still could have been so much worse. And with all the gov't bungling, you can't guarantee that you still wouldn't have had a collapse of society with so little left.

I try to thank God for every little blessing. But this is a warning to WAKE UP.
__________________

__________________
Teta040 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com