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Old 03-21-2006, 04:25 PM   #16
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Well I'm sure overall you know a lot more than I do...those two just happen to be in my area of expertise.
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Old 03-23-2006, 03:55 PM   #17
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Well a recent article on the AP is saying that the Clerics demand the courts execute this man. If they do not they will have their followers tear him into pieces.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060323/...istian_convert
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:23 PM   #18
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But Said Mirhossain Nasri, the top cleric at Hossainia Mosque, one of the largest Shiite places of worship in Kabul, said Rahman must not be allowed to leave the country.

"If he is allowed to live in the West, then others will claim to be Christian so they can too," he said. "We must set an example. ... He must be hanged."
Interesting connection for him to make, and a sad commentary on how the politicization of cultural autonomy works its way into these issues, making debate *within* Islam that much harder to achieve. Similar arguments have been made in Pakistan concerning the rights of Pakistani women to advocate abroad for making "honor killings" and the like an international human rights issue.
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:29 PM   #19
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Originally posted by the iron horse
To hell with any man-made law that kills a person for their religious beliefs.
This is what kills me. It's easy for Christians to support secularism when it comes to nations with other predominant religions, but these same people will want Biblical law to run their own countries.

I'll agree that no man should be deemed a criminal for changing religions, but I just think subjects like these bring hypocrites out in droves.

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Old 03-24-2006, 11:43 AM   #20
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How many religions requires (and practices today) a death penalty for converting to another religion?
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Old 03-24-2006, 01:44 PM   #21
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How many religions requires (and practices today) a death penalty for converting to another religion?
Does the religion require death? Or is that how man has bent it?

Every religion is guilty of that.
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Old 03-24-2006, 02:01 PM   #22
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Does the religion require death? Or is that how man has bent it?
I guess we need to define what the religion is prior to any potential changing by man.

Unless we accept an element of inerrancy (God breathed Scripture, for example) every element of every religion is suspect to being bent by man.
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Old 03-24-2006, 03:19 PM   #23
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Does the religion require death? Or is that how man has bent it?

Every religion is guilty of that.
Yes, but I don't know how many do it in this day and age.
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Old 03-24-2006, 07:05 PM   #24
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Does the religion require death? Or is that how man has bent it?

Every religion is guilty of that.
Go to Ask an Imam

How come an apostate is killed in Islamic Shariah but there's no compulsion upon other non-Muslims in the State? Why isn't he/she allowed to follow whatever religion they want? Jazakum'Allahu khairun.

There are two categories of people mentioned: an apostate and an original non-Muslim. The injunctions of the Shari’ah as supported by the Qur’aan and Hadith that is applicable to both of them differs. In other words, both of them do not fall under the same category.

The first one is an apostate or renegade, i.e. a Muslim person who has turned away from Islam and the second are those who are non-Muslims originally. The law for the first group of people, i.e. renegade is that firstly Islam will be presented once again to him and if he has any doubts or queries then these should be cleared out and he will be given a respite of 3 days. If he accepts Islam again, then fine otherwise he will be killed. This is substantiated by the noble Hadith of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) wherein he explicitly mentions, ‘Whosoever changes his Deen, then kill him’. This only apply to the males. A female renegade will not be killed, rather kept imprisoned until she accepts Islam.

As for the second group, when the Muslims conquer a non-Muslim land, they will first invite those people to Islam because of the narration of ibn Abbaas (Radhiallaahu Anhu), ‘No nation should be fought with until they are called to Islam.’ If the accept, then Muslims will not fight with them. And if they refuse, then they will be asked to pay Jizya (tax), if they refuse, this, then only will the Muslims fight them. This is also substantiated by Qur’aan, ‘Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor in the last day nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his Messenger (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) until they pay the Jizya (tax) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued.’ (Surah Tawbah Aayat29).

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai


and a whole bunch here

It looks like the religion has some strong and proscribed views about it. I think it may be disengenuous to say that this is an utter corruption.
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Old 03-24-2006, 07:11 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Go to Ask an Imam

How come an apostate is killed in Islamic Shariah but there's no compulsion upon other non-Muslims in the State? Why isn't he/she allowed to follow whatever religion they want? Jazakum'Allahu khairun.

There are two categories of people mentioned: an apostate and an original non-Muslim. The injunctions of the Shari’ah as supported by the Qur’aan and Hadith that is applicable to both of them differs. In other words, both of them do not fall under the same category.

The first one is an apostate or renegade, i.e. a Muslim person who has turned away from Islam and the second are those who are non-Muslims originally. The law for the first group of people, i.e. renegade is that firstly Islam will be presented once again to him and if he has any doubts or queries then these should be cleared out and he will be given a respite of 3 days. If he accepts Islam again, then fine otherwise he will be killed. This is substantiated by the noble Hadith of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) wherein he explicitly mentions, ‘Whosoever changes his Deen, then kill him’. This only apply to the males. A female renegade will not be killed, rather kept imprisoned until she accepts Islam.

As for the second group, when the Muslims conquer a non-Muslim land, they will first invite those people to Islam because of the narration of ibn Abbaas (Radhiallaahu Anhu), ‘No nation should be fought with until they are called to Islam.’ If the accept, then Muslims will not fight with them. And if they refuse, then they will be asked to pay Jizya (tax), if they refuse, this, then only will the Muslims fight them. This is also substantiated by Qur’aan, ‘Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor in the last day nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and his Messenger (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) until they pay the Jizya (tax) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued.’ (Surah Tawbah Aayat29).

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai


and a whole bunch here

To me that is disturbing. Why would god in the bible preach love and peace and in the Quran teach murder and corruption?
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Old 03-24-2006, 07:12 PM   #26
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


I guess we need to define what the religion is prior to any potential changing by man.

Unless we accept an element of inerrancy (God breathed Scripture, for example) every element of every religion is suspect to being bent by man.
Well I should have said does their scripture require death...
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Old 03-24-2006, 07:22 PM   #27
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Originally posted by Justin24


To me that is disturbing. Why would god in the bible preach love and peace and in the Quran teach murder and corruption?
It doesn't preach extortion and subjegation against believers though, that is what you have to understand - there is only peace among Muslims
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Old 03-24-2006, 07:50 PM   #28
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OK, as my mother would say, that's from the horse's mouth.
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Old 03-24-2006, 08:23 PM   #29
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Originally posted by Justin24
To me that is disturbing. Why would god in the bible preach love and peace and in the Quran teach murder and corruption?
Because they come from two completely different cultural backgrounds.

And again, that's why I laugh at the idea of scriptural inerrancy.

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Old 03-24-2006, 10:30 PM   #30
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I think God laughs at the idea of human inerrancy.
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