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Old 09-18-2006, 07:30 AM   #166
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Originally posted by melon


And I never said it was. However, passages like these are not fitting for "The Anti-Communist Manifesto."

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Only if you believe that a book about entitled "The Anti-Communist Manifesto" would be about corporate socialism and spreading religion by the sword rather than free will.
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Old 09-18-2006, 07:32 AM   #167
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Originally posted by Justin24
As far as I can see the only way this kind of shit stopping is for the entire Islamic faith to grow out of it's shell because it's more extreme than the conservative Christian right in this country as I see it. As far as I can tell you don't see the Conservative Christian Right Threatening to kill, burn effigies and call for a jihad.


I meant to post this here. But it fits well in that other thread.
Whenever someone says something bad about the Pope, he offers his forgiveness. Whenever a public figure says anything bad about Islam, we see death and destruction.
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Old 09-18-2006, 07:34 AM   #168
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Do you think your a good Moral person?
I don't think anyone would seriously answer "no" to this question.
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Old 09-18-2006, 07:36 AM   #169
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
You'll never see COEXIST with your perspective.
Should we "coexist" with Osama bin Laden? Is he going to heaven just because he believes his intentions are good?
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Old 09-18-2006, 08:14 AM   #170
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Jesus gave this man a choice. Whether it's sugar-coated socialism or flat-out communism, it's an overpowering force of bureaucracy that took everything you worked hard for with the government throwing your behind bars if you didn't like it.
You're arguing apples and oranges here. The Bible makes no pronouncement on the ideal form of government, and if you are looking for even the slightest form, I guess you could say that Jesus supported despotism:

"They watched him closely and sent agents pretending to be righteous who were to trap him in speech, in order to hand him over to the authority and power of the governor. They posed this question to him, 'Teacher, we know that what you say and teach is correct, and you show no partiality, but teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Is it lawful for us to pay tribute to Caesar or not?' Recognizing their craftiness he said to them, 'Show me a denarius; whose image and name does it bear?' They replied, 'Caesar's.' So he said to them, 'Then repay to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God.'" - Luke 20:20-25

The Roman Empire was only remotely kind to those they deemed "Roman citizens," and there were plenty of slaves, not to mention that this same empire killed Christians for the following 300 years.

And yet, Jesus still refused to condemn the Roman Empire.

I'm not saying that we have to be complacent and support a terrible government in light of this passage. I'm saying that it was Jesus' intention to focus on spiritual matters, not worldly, political matters; and to call it "The Anti-Communist Manifesto" would be blasphemous, as I see it.

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Old 09-18-2006, 08:18 AM   #171
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I'm not saying that we have to be complacent and support a terrible government in light of this passage.
But there is a history of terrible governments doing that. In fairness Marx was on the money about belief [/i]"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people."[/i]
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Old 09-18-2006, 08:19 AM   #172
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
People have always relied on spiritual advisors from the very beginning of mankind. We can take Ancient Greece or Ancient Rome, or any pagan civilization and apply that same principle. There's a reason they went to theological seminary in the first place. It's the way they use their power that could be for better or worse.

But the Bible is out there to expose how the religious zealots lied their way into The Crusades, and other pre-Reformation fallacies, due to corrupt leadership.
I think there's still plenty religious zealots out there lying their way to power, and there's plenty of the faithful out there who take what their minister says without questioning. There's a lot of potential for abuse out there, much in the same way as it was abused in the Middle Ages.

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Old 09-18-2006, 08:25 AM   #173
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
The opposite of Marxism is free will.
Again, apples and oranges. The diametric opposite of Marxism is laissez-faire capitalism, which is no more inherently moral than Marxism, if you look at the damage it wreaked in the late 19th century. The advent of regulation in the first half of the 20th century is the only thing that tempered its abuses.

China can be called more capitalist than Marxist these days, looking at its more recent economic policies, but it's as "totalitarian" as it gets. There is no "free will." As such, the opposite of "free will" is totalitarianism, which can be under the guise of capitalism or communism--or even fascism, which has nothing to do with Marxism whatsoever.

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Old 09-18-2006, 08:27 AM   #174
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The nature of the state is a product of it's economic system; China is in flux today; attributing the horrors of statism today to newfound economic liberties is not as convincing as the entrenched mentality of decades of hard communist rule.
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Old 09-18-2006, 09:57 AM   #175
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


No, it wasn't something he said about some of Mohhamed's perspectives, he said

ONLY evil and inhuman.

I never met Mohhamed.
Did you meet Gzndhi ? Martin Luther King ? Hitler ?
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Old 09-18-2006, 10:00 AM   #176
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Good article from the Telegraph

"The truth is that barbaric attacks happen weekly. No wonder that Benedict favours an urgent dialogue with Muslims on the subject of religious violence, rather than the usual touchy-feely exchange of compliments.

Well, he has started a dialogue now, albeit not quite in the way that he intended. And it is essential that it continue. A self-abasing apology from the Pope would have postponed that discussion yet again.

We suspect that Western public opinion is not displeased that Benedict has said the unsayable. Now it is time for other churchmen to tell their Muslim counterparts that, in addition to dishing out criticism, they must learn how to take it."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m.../18/dl1801.xml
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Old 09-18-2006, 10:02 AM   #177
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Watching Soccer = Religious Extremism

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060917/3/2q1dt.html

Somalis have welcomed the Islamists' pacification of their capital since they took it over in June, but they are increasingly unhappy at signs of religious extremism such as closing down public viewing of films and sport.
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Old 09-18-2006, 10:05 AM   #178
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Step in the right direction

http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas..._views_to_hub/

"it is time for Muslims to quit blaming others and examine their own responsibility for the troubles of Islamic civilization; time for Arab Israelis to call themselves Israelis, not Palestinians; and, above all, time for women to have full equality with men in the Muslim world"
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Old 09-18-2006, 10:08 AM   #179
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Originally posted by TranceEnding



I wonder how different it would be if we were also contantly shown (mostly christian) soldiers bombing places and seeing civilians murdered and dead children??

Ironically, almost all of the killing of women and children in Iraq is from Muslims - and if the US soldiers left, it would be even worse.

In addition, all of the bodies that are showing up in Baghdad show signs of being bound and tortured by power drills before they were executed.

Comparing US soldiers to this kind of evil clearly shows that you really know little about the US military - and even less about the enemy.
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Old 09-18-2006, 10:22 AM   #180
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
But there is a history of terrible governments doing that. In fairness Marx was on the money about belief [/i]"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people."[/i]
I am a firm believer that all ideas come from one of two sources: God or "the World" (i.e. Satan - laugh if you must, but this is what I believe and this is what the Bible teaches...and most importantly, it makes perfect sense). I try to place every idea into one of these two camps. It doesn't work all of the time, but it certainly does work much of the time.

It is easy for me to see where this laughable quote lands. If the Russian Revolution had never happened, Marx would’ve been long forgotten.

No we must wait another 50 or so years until he's forgotten.

Wanderer, I do agree with many of your posts. You seem like an intelligent and well-informed young man. However, your defense of socialism/communism seems a bit confusing to me. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. (I hope so)
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