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Old 09-02-2005, 09:41 AM   #91
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Let's put this in language that people here will understand:

If a terrorist exploded dirty bombs on all of New Orleans' levees and the entire city needed to be evacuated, then what would you all say if people were sitting there four days later? Would we be saying this is a "state issue"? Would we be giving Bush a free pass for the lack of disaster planning? All we've gotten over the last four years is lectures on security this and security that, and four years later, the best we can do is prevent another 9/11. Pathetic.

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Old 09-02-2005, 09:42 AM   #92
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Originally posted by phanan


I usually agree with you on several subjects, but on this, you disappoint me tremendously. That's all I have to say about that.
Why, because I have been organizing relief to be delievered...

Or because I just fail to jump on the bandwagon.

Save your disappointment. It has been a long week of worrying and praying here.
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Old 09-02-2005, 09:46 AM   #93
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Assuming this actually becomes an official federal issue after it's been declared a disaster area, I think questions about 4 days of either inaction or incompetence are justified.
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Old 09-02-2005, 09:46 AM   #94
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Re: Trent Lott will rebuild, better than ever!!

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Originally posted by ShellBeThere
What a monumental (so many have said this devastation is of biblical proportions, and for a man who allegedly sees himself in such terms, it's sort of scary to see his response today) opportunity he missed to say something healing and inspiring...does anyone think he shed a tear about all this?
Compare Bush's response to that of Tony Blair's during the London bombings, for example. Not that I'm a big fan of Blair but he was so human in his response--he was visibly moved and distressed. Bush just seems like this is a big inconvenience, another annoying event that has rained on his parade (no bad pun intended).
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Old 09-02-2005, 09:47 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


Have fun politicizing this whole thing....I will be back when there are other assumptions that are being used incorrectly to fit your adjenda.

Unreal. I can safely say that most of us here who are outraged do not have some huge political agenda; we just want to see something done about what has turned into a once "unfathomable" situation happening just a few hundred, or a few thousand, miles from us.

You're telling us we have no right to point the fingers at the so-called leaders of the country? Interesting.
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Old 09-02-2005, 09:48 AM   #96
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I never said I was happy with it. But I think the politicization in this thread is beyond people being happy or unhappy.
I don't think it is. People are rightly disgusted that as this disaster is unfolding the President is stopping for photo ops with guitars and birthday cakes, the vice President is on vacation and the Secretary of State is shopping for shoes. People are rightly shocked that it is five days since the hurricane struck and yet there are still tens of thousands of people stuck in a city where conditions are deteriorating by the hour. People have a right to demand an explanation as to why the government has as yet failed to adequately respond to this disaster.

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Seriously, I just spent my week organizing some relief from my Lion's Club, My church, and my school......I do not have patience for this.
That's great, I applaud anyone who's making an effort to help the people affected by the hurricane and flooding. But why should that prevent people from raising questions about why the governemnt's response has been so inadequate? Why can't people help raise money or send supplies as well as demanding the government put in place an effective plan to help the people affected by these events?
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Old 09-02-2005, 09:52 AM   #97
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There is such a thing as "micro" and "macro" level response. In the "micro" level, aid preparation and assistance is of utmost importance and should transcend politics. Mistakes may have been made, but that's not the concern of the "micro" level.

"Macro" level, on the other hand, is where we ask the questions on the larger picture as to what should have been done, who is responsible, what can be done to prevent this from happening again, etc. This thread is mostly about the "macro" level, and I think is just as important as the "micro" level response. And not all of us are in a position to do anything at the "micro" level, but we should be supportive of those who are making a difference in this level.

Thanks Dreadsox for your relief work. It will be appreciated.

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Old 09-02-2005, 09:52 AM   #98
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I would also like to argue that evaluating the authorities' behaviour with disasters like this is absolutely necessary for either preventing the next one, or improving rescue operations after the next one.
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Old 09-02-2005, 09:56 AM   #99
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In the case of a forecasted Category 5 Hurricane Warning days in advance the "state" definitely bears responsibilty to have a plan.
It issued a mandatory evacuation.
Citizens who could get out on their own means did. That's good cause it's less for the state to have to do.
Those who could not because of econoimcs should have been evacuated to safety before the storm hit.
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Old 09-02-2005, 10:12 AM   #100
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Louisiana and many of their neighbors are too poor to be self-sufficient. They often rely on the "wealthier" states, which is equalized through federal funding.

But if you insist on state burden, maybe the South needs to raise their state taxes then. After all, "welfare is bad," right?

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Old 09-02-2005, 10:18 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally posted by BorderGirl
In the case of a forecasted Category 5 Hurricane Warning days in advance the "state" definitely bears responsibilty to have a plan.
It issued a mandatory evacuation.
Citizens who could get out on their own means did. That's good cause it's less for the state to have to do.
Those who could not because of econoimcs should have been evacuated to safety before the storm hit.
If the federal government had constructed levees that can withstand these types of storms, then the magnitude of this catastrophe would not be as severe. So yes, I blame the federal government for that, Democrats and Republicans alike.

And the federal response AFTER the storm hit has been ludicrous, to put it mildly. And for that, I blame our President.
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Old 09-02-2005, 10:22 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


Why, because I have been organizing relief to be delievered...

Or because I just fail to jump on the bandwagon.

Save your disappointment. It has been a long week of worrying and praying here.
Because, while I understand your frustration at certain comments, to declare to everyone in this thread that the politicization of this disaster is for taking advantage of certain views is outrageous. I'm sorry if you think our government is handling this well. Most of us disagree, and we certainly have a right to disagree. If you don't like it, don't say anything and ignore the thread.

And I applaud you for organizing relief, and to suggest that I am attacking you on that front is preposterous, and you know it.
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Old 09-02-2005, 10:26 AM   #103
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
Just watched the press conference......

Is that the same press conference where the Coast Guard helicoptors and troops were standing in the back doing NOTHING? How the HELL can we save anyone when the government insists on using Coast Guard saving equipment for a PHOTO OP?

I used to walk by a sign in a window across the street from the Ground Zero in NYC. It was a quote from Thomas Jefferson: "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." As Americans, we don't work for the government, we work for each other. We have to watch out for each other and help each other in need. We give money because we are lucky enough to have money. We fight for those who are less fortunate and get money and food and clothing to people in their darkest hour.

Because we watch out for each other, we have a responsibility as Americans to use our freedom of speech to question our government when they are wrong. It was WRONG for Condi Rice to be shopping in NYC instead of taking calls from international leaders who wanted to help. It was WRONG for Scott McClellan to say people shouldn't be stealing food and water because sooner or later, the government would show up with supplies. And it is WRONG that in the midst of all this, the vice president is on VACATION.

We can point fingers all we want -- LA didn't prepare well for evacuations, Mississippi should have saw this coming when they put in a casino law saying casinos had to be in barges that ended up being washed a half mile inland. Point, point, point. But this is a multi-state disaster which requires a multi-state government to respond like...oh...the FEDERAL government. No state could have enough resources to fight a Cat. 5 hurricane along and yet for almost a week, that is what has happened. Sure, you can bitch the NO mayor needed to evacuate people but how can a city with a majority of people below the poverty line be able to get money needed to pay for such an effort?
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Old 09-02-2005, 10:28 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by phanan


If the federal government had constructed levees that can withstand these types of storms, then the magnitude of this catastrophe would not be as severe. So yes, I blame the federal government for that, Democrats and Republicans alike.
Yes, if the levies had been higher then it would have probably reduced the damage but if the natural hurricane barriers, marshlands and alike, had not been bulldozed the damage would not have been as severe either. So you can extend the blame beyond the government to developers.
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Old 09-02-2005, 10:30 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by phanan


Because, while I understand your frustration at certain comments, to declare to everyone in this thread that the politicization of this disaster is for taking advantage of certain views is outrageous. I'm sorry if you think our government is handling this well. Most of us disagree, and we certainly have a right to disagree. If you don't like it, don't say anything and ignore the thread.
I don't think it's political either. It's not just people opposed to Bush who are critical of the response:

Quote:
Gingrich criticism

Even Republicans were criticizing Bush and his administration for the sluggish relief effort. “I think it puts into question all of the Homeland Security and Northern Command planning for the last four years, because if we can’t respond faster than this to an event we saw coming across the Gulf for days, then why do we think we’re prepared to respond to a nuclear or biological attack?” said former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.

He urged Bush to name former New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani as the White House point person for relief efforts. “We need to get the job done now, and I don’t think anybody is better prepared to do that psychologically and otherwise than Rudy Giuliani,” Gingrich told The Associated Press.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9157866/
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