MERGED==> The politics of Katrina + Trent Lott + Michael Moore

[kellyahern]

We are right now, one more hurricane and a Californian earthquake away from total worldwide recession, brrr.

How come we aren't seeing stories of people helping people like we saw during the tsunami. There are some heartwarming stories but they are outnumbered by stuff like a sniper,WTF?!? There were some evil people stealing children in Asia but nothing like the craziness going on in NO. During the tsunami, the people who lost everything were going out of their way to assist the tourists who were total strangers. They were all working together in attempts to minimize the effects. How bizarre that the reaction to the disaster is so different. Maybe technology and modern society has affected our values and respect for each other.

Quote from the radio interview with the mayor of New Orleans:

"And one of the things people -- nobody's talked about this. Drugs flowed in and out of New Orleans and the surrounding metropolitan area so freely it was scary to me, and that's why we were having the escalation in murders. People don't want to talk about this, but I'm going to talk about it.

You have drug addicts that are now walking around this city looking for a fix, and that's the reason why they were breaking in hospitals and drugstores. They're looking for something to take the edge off of their jones, if you will.

And right now, they don't have anything to take the edge off. And they've probably found guns. So what you're seeing is drug-starving crazy addicts, drug addicts, that are wrecking havoc. And we don't have the manpower to adequately deal with it. We can only target certain sections of the city and form a perimeter around them and hope to God that we're not overrun."

I know that's not the only reason, but it is something to think about.

 

[anitram]

Good point, Dread.

There are numerous Canadians stuck at the Park Plaza hotel because they were told their flight was leaving early Sunday morning and then was cancelled last minute. At that time they had no recourse but to stay.

 

[anitram]

Also, Kanye West just went off on the NBC live show about how "President Bush doesn't care about black people."

There is video of it popping up all over.

 

[trevster2k]

Here is a question I want answered. Why was were the airports closed more than 24 hours before the storm?

I can see closing it to incoming planes...

but....

Why were people who were trying to evacuate turned away 24 hours before the storm?

Good question, also it is troubling to realize that apparently unless you can afford to move out of harm's way, you are condemned to suffer the consequences of being on a fixed income or unemployed. Hmmm, that is disturbing.

 

[trevster2k]

Quote from the radio interview with the mayor of New Orleans:

"And one of the things people -- nobody's talked about this. Drugs flowed in and out of New Orleans and the surrounding metropolitan area so freely it was scary to me, and that's why we were having the escalation in murders. People don't want to talk about this, but I'm going to talk about it.

You have drug addicts that are now walking around this city looking for a fix, and that's the reason why they were breaking in hospitals and drugstores. They're looking for something to take the edge off of their jones, if you will.

And right now, they don't have anything to take the edge off. And they've probably found guns. So what you're seeing is drug-starving crazy addicts, drug addicts, that are wrecking havoc. And we don't have the manpower to adequately deal with it. We can only target certain sections of the city and form a perimeter around them and hope to God that we're not overrun."

I know that's not the only reason, but it is something to think about.

I just realized also that after the tsunami there was nothing to loot anyway, there was total obliteration.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Well the self styled progressives are really offended

I just stopped at the grocery store to pick up a candy bar. They only had one line open, plus the do-it-yourself area where you have to play amateur cashier. I hate that do-it-yourself area, but the other line was too long so I used it.

After I managed to get the candy bar's bar code to fit perfectly over the little laser and figured out how the machine worked so I could waste twice the time it would normally take me to buy a candy bar, an employee approached me and said, "Would you like to give a dollar for Hurricane Katrina?"

I said, "No."

First off, I'm offended that the store employees are wandering around fundraising instead of helping customers, especially when it's so obvious that the store conglomerate uses these do-it-yourself machines to cut down on the number of employees necessary to help customers so that the store conglomerate can turn a larger profit while having fewer of those pesky union workers to deal with.

But beyond that, I'm sick of footing the bill for George W. Bush and the rest of his so-called compassionate conservatives.

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/09/01/170702.php

So why was I thinking of starting a movement against giving aid to the stricken areas?

Because these are red states. They voted for Bush. These ninnies obviously wanted these policies, and they deserve to live with the consequences of their votes.

A large part of me still believes that many of these W-worshipping numbskulls deserve to suffer and to die. They brought it on themselves. Let them look to Jayzuss for aid: It's time they stopped leeching off the more productive blue staters.

(Californians stupidly give much more to the federal government than we receive from it; the money flows in a very different direction in the red states.)

So, at least, I started to write. But then (to paraphrase the old song) I thought I'd better think it out again.

Many of the victims, the ones who have suffered the most, are poor. The hardest hit were the blue state folk living among the red state maniacs. New Orleans, we should note, went heavily for Kerry.

And that's why we must help. Although it was very tempting to say otherwise.

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001782.htm

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

A few thoughts...

First off, I commend anyone who's helping these people out in any way, shape, or form . After hearing about the rapes and murders and suicide and all that, it's nice to hear some stories of kind acts. My hat's off to you all.

Second, regarding the wonder of why New Orleans even was built where it was...I asked that question, too, but then my dad reminded me that when the population gets bigger, people are going to build wherever they can. It may be dangerous, but they've gotta live somewhere. After all, my family, at one time, was living in a trailer park in Iowa. We knew full well of the dangers that could befall us in the spring and summer-thankfully we managed to squeak by somehow, but we were still in potential danger. But we had to live somewhere. And my guess is that was the thought process when New Orleans was being created.

And third...

Unfortunately, the "united we stand" spirit didn't survive the moment when, several weeks after the 9/11 attacks, Bush advisor Karl Rove boasted to his fellow Republicans about his plan to use the war on terror to win the 2002 midterm elections.

...if this is indeed true about Karl, he is an asshole .

Angela

 

[Dreadsox]

Good question, also it is troubling to realize that apparently unless you can afford to move out of harm's way, you are condemned to suffer the consequences of being on a fixed income or unemployed. Hmmm, that is disturbing.

That picture of all of those buses just sitting there in the lot....kills me. You have no idea how much that picture has bothered me today. How many people could have been shuttled out ahead of time.

 

[ShellBeThere]

Did anyone see tonight (sorry if it's already been mentioned) even the Fox reporters in the field, like Geraldo Rivera and Shepard Smith, seeming to suddenly become almost radicalized in their response to this tragedy?
Geraldo was in tears in the convention center, hanging out with the people who needed to be 'contained' , 'secured', who came days ago and are still there without supplies and not allowed to leave, held there hopeless. I know he's a passionate kinda guy in these field deals, but he was just incredulous and teary about how nobody was serving these people, they were just being kept out of the streets ...and without saying it you knew why, you knew he knew why. It wasn't for logistical reasons; Geraldo was suggesting that they let everyone out and let them walk across the river to get to the electricity in gretna (sp?) and the walmart for some food and water and formula and soap and fresh clothes...It was because these were the people who needed to be contained. The national guard there weren't 'securing' these folks from the waters, they were 'securing' the property rights of the storeowners in the city. Or okay, they were maybe also 'securing' the aid and rescue workers from some few who were strung-out, needing a smoke, so angry or so crazed and creating dangers. But there was no way to describe what they were doing either but to say they were keeping thousands of people basically imprisoned and not meeting basic needs. Maybe I was imagining it, but it felt like I was watching these conservative reporters' amazement at the way poor mostly black folk get treated. They over and over said they just didn't get why all anybody was doing was 'securing' the center, i.e. creating check-points and holding folks back from getting to the supplies which nobody could tell them about. The Red Cross was interviewed and told they weren't being allowed in, because the areas needed to be 'secured'. Sean Hannity, true to form, heard this message being so ardently delivered and even though it was his own fellow foxies bearing the news, said "wait a minute, let's get some perspective" to which Geraldo and Smith replied "but we're here and we're telling you that this is what's happening; we see it with our own eyes". It was an amazing exchange, and so reflective of the problems in our current dialog. The reality is there, but there are persons like Hannity willing to tell us it's not, calling even his own comrades in murdoch-land alarmists. They were so worked up, it was amazing.
It felt so much like especially Geraldo was implying that clearly these people weren't being allowed out because the fear was that the local abandoned sources of food and supplies would be taken and that the reality was the need was so great that who the hell cared...folks were starving and dying for lack of medicine and babies didn't have formula and we're supposed to worry about the property rights of the rite-aid down the street?

 

[anitram]

A_Wanderer, in the interest of fairness if you want to post those articles then this one should be right along side it:

Rev. Bill Shanks, pastor of New Covenant Fellowship of New Orleans, also sees God's mercy in the aftermath of Katrina -- but in a different way. Shanks says the hurricane has wiped out much of the rampant sin common to the city.

The pastor explains that for years he has warned people that unless Christians in New Orleans took a strong stand against such things as local abortion clinics, the yearly Mardi Gras celebrations, and the annual event known as "Southern Decadence" -- an annual six-day "gay pride" event scheduled to be hosted by the city this week -- God's judgment would be felt.

“New Orleans now is abortion free. New Orleans now is Mardi Gras free. New Orleans now is free of Southern Decadence and the sodomites, the witchcraft workers, false religion -- it's free of all of those things now," Shanks says. "God simply, I believe, in His mercy purged all of that stuff out of there -- and now we're going to start over again."

The New Orleans pastor is adamant. Christians, he says, need to confront sin. "It's time for us to stand up against wickedness so that God won't have to deal with that wickedness," he says.

Believers, he says, are God's "authorized representatives on the face of the Earth" and should say they "don't want unrighteous men in office," for example. In addition, he says Christians should not hesitate to voice their opinions about such things as abortion, prayer, and homosexual marriage. "We don't want a Supreme Court that is going to say it's all right to kill little boys and girls, ... it's all right to take prayer out of schools, and it's all right to legalize sodomy, opening the door for same-sex marriage and all of that.”

 

[U2Bama]

How come we aren't seeing stories of people helping people like we saw during the tsunami. There are some heartwarming stories but they are outnumbered by stuff like a sniper,WTF?!?

For starters, I watched the Stone Phillips program on NBC tonight. Some firefighters in Pass Christian, Mississippi were commenting that htey had not yet gotten any ferderal aid and were asking for it, but they showed the goods sent from Alabama (which was also hit) and Florida and were very appreciative and said it was overwhelming. A refugee center in Gonzales, Louisiana didn't have to ask for food for its evacuees because local businesses and churches were donating it. Here in Birmingham, Alabama, local school systems are enrolling students who have evacuated to this area, WITHOUT the typical paperwork. Even while Mobile was still being drained from its floods, Alabama sent relief crews into Mississippi and Florida. Governor Jeb Bush of Florida diverted gasoline shipments that were meant for the Florida Panhandle, a popular Labor Day weekend destination, and sent it instead to Mississippi and Louisiana where the refineries are down. Neonatal ICU patients (babies) are being transported to Birmingham and Texas hospitals and cared for here.

On another note, I had an AIM conversation with Dread the other night that may have contributed to this "politicization" conflict in here. Neither I nor Dread nor, probably, anyone else in this forum, think that people shouldn't criticize the government. In fact, I think criticism is especially effective when we see that things aren't being done properly in a crisis situation. But it seemed to me that the people who are usually criticising Bush for myriad other reasons were seizing an opportunity to go specifically after him for the aftermath (if not the lack of prevention of) this crisis.

I saw someone post asking "why" military helicopters weren't being used to rescue people, when I had already seen, by Wednesday, helicopters from nearly every branch of the military rescuing people. I posted photos of several of them. No response to my confirmation that military choppers were indeed being used. Was someone making a subtle point that we had "no" military helicopters to use in rescue operations since "all" of them were deployed to Iraq, which, obviously, "all" of us disagree with US presence there? Since then, I've seen it mentioned several times how many Mississippi and Louisiana national guard troops are deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan when they should be in Mississippi and Louisiana. Are we using this hurricane to bolster the anti-war movement?

Regarding the tardy, inadequate resopnse of the federal agencies, I do agree that it was unacceptable. However, I agree with Dread that it is puzzling as to why the city of New Orleans or the state of Louisiana didn't utilize the school buses to evacuees who had no means of leaving the city. I'm not saying to drive them to the Super Dome or Convention Center; I'm talking about on Saturday and Sunday sending them to Houston, Birmingham, Shreveport or Little Rock. Why not? It's just as appropriate to finger point and blame the local governments for not procuring a better evacuation as it is to blame the feds for not dealing appropriately with a storm/flood situation unlike any expreineced in our history, and on top of that partially in a city below sea level situated between a system of levves that were originally built around swamp land in the 1700s.

Also, how do any of us know that any other leader, be it John Kerry, Ralph Nade, Al Gore, John McCain, would have responded any more effectively? Do we just assume that because we agree with those candidates on other issues?

~U2Alabama

 

[anitram]

Good post U2Bama!

For me, I have never questioned tax breaks or levee structure or Iraq deployment as causes of this calamity. Not on this thread nor anywhere else because right now that's beside the point. It happened, the thing that must be dealt with is the immediate aftermath.

Frankly, I find it to be a national disgrace. I have lived in a war zone and I can honestly tell you that this kind of governmental incompetence here is worse than the refugee exoduses in Bosnia and Kosovo 10-15 years ago. Maybe that is acceptable to some people, but on a personal level, I find it sad and shocking that in the richest, most powerful country in the world, which went through the horror of 9/11 relatively efficiently has allowed this go down the way it has. It's incomprehensible to me.

Furthermore, I absolutely feel that Bush, Rice and Cheney were grossly unprofessional this week.

I am sorry, but your Secretary of State went to a US Open Tennis match, bought herself a pair of $1000 shoes (while closing down a section of 7th Avenue!) and went to some sort of Broadway show last night. When foreign officials all over the world can't get in touch with your officials to co-ordinate efforts. Today, the Canadian military has sent 3 ships over before a specific request was issued because you can't get in touch with anyone. What is this woman doing shopping for designer Manolo Blahniks? Is this acceptable to you? Because there are places in the world where her head would be on a platter over this.

Bush meanwhile played the guitar, ate some cake and Cheney is seemingly on another planet.

Contrast that with Giuliani. Contrast that with the governments of Thailand, Sri Lanka, etc. These people simply did NOT behave in such a way. Do we not remember Tony Blair after the London bombings, immediately flying down to London? Reassuring the public, sounding stately, and organized? And you know, it is about PR, because when you have thousands of people starving, dehydrated, being shot and and God knows what else, you do not allow your Secretary of State to act like she's on her own personal makeover show. Those people down there need real leadership, people like Giuliani and others who are capable of delivering it. This administration is pathetic.

I think you deserve better from your leadership.

 

[hiphop]

...folks were starving and dying for lack of medicine and babies didn't have formula and we're supposed to worry about the property rights of the rite-aid down the street?

Thats because in a capitalist society not only private property, but also (and especially) corporate/ industrial/ production property is valued the same or higher than human life.

Look at the law, ask yourself why an Afro American criminal will get twenty years for robbing a bank while a white rapist will serve 6 months for rape. Thats the society we live in, and first you need to change those overbloated property-values.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

In regards to the thing anitram shared...I will never understand how people can say things like that when a natural disaster hits an area. That guy's a jerk. A complete and utter jerk.

Angela

 

[A_Wanderer]

A_Wanderer, in the interest of fairness if you want to post those articles then this one should be right along side it:

Fairness; their all fuckers; the eco gaia worshipping twits who think that America deserved it for not signing Kyoto, the religious bastards who see it as divine retribution, the pathological Bush haters who see it as justice ~ every last one of them.

 

[oktobergirl]

I just watched the Geraldo and Shepherd Smith reports on Fox news. I have no words, just tears coming down my face.

It's been almost 6 days. This the United States. GET THEM OUT.

 

[nbcrusader]

I've skimmed through the various Katrina threads and listened to plenty of political rhetoric over the last few days.

It is simply disgusting. I have a half-sister who lost her home in Slidell, LA. She and her family are refugees in the area, poor as dirt and have a far more positive attitude than the jaded observers casting political criticisms.

People who bitch and moan when their internet connection goes down for an hour act as if the Federal Government should be able to clean up the affected areas by dinner.

I hope more energy will be spent (by people in the US and around the world) in helping those who suffer instead of fiddling as political pundits.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Another thing I'd meant to say about that religious guy, he said all those other "sins" died out when Katrina came through...rape and murder don't count as sins to this guy? . Those things are still happening, even long after Katrina's died...

Gah. People like that guy just drive me up the wall . I just honestly fail to understand how those kinds of thoughts come about.

Angela

 

[trevster2k]

I've skimmed through the various Katrina threads and listened to plenty of political rhetoric over the last few days.

It is simply disgusting. I have a half-sister who lost her home in Slidell, LA. She and her family are refugees in the area, poor as dirt and have a far more positive attitude than the jaded observers casting political criticisms.

People who bitch and moan when their internet connection goes down for an hour act as if the Federal Government should be able to clean up the affected areas by dinner.

I hope more energy will be spent (by people in the US and around the world) in helping those who suffer instead of fiddling as political pundits.

You are entitled to your opinion. BTW, is your sister stranded in the middle of New Orleans surrounded by polluted water, dead bodies, threats of violence and lack of food and clean water. I hope to God she isn't and she and her family are safe. But forgive me for siding with the people who are still trapped in the disaster zone instead of the federal government. Even Bush has admitted the efforts have been unacceptable.

 

[nbcrusader]

You are entitled to your opinion. BTW, is your sister stranded in the middle of New Orleans surrounded by polluted water, dead bodies, threats of violence and lack of food and clean water. I hope to God she isn't and she and her family are safe. But forgive me for siding with the people who are still trapped in the disaster zone instead of the federal government. Even Bush has admitted the efforts have been unacceptable.

Thank you for underscoring the real problem: taking sides. While you are busy doing so, people are suffering. There are no sides in a disaster - everyone gets hurt.

 

[hiphop]

There are no sides in a disaster - everyone gets hurt.

Everyone except of Condi who´s busy buying shoes, excuse me

 

[deep]

Thank you for underscoring the real problem: taking sides. While you are busy doing so, people are suffering. There are no sides in a disaster - everyone gets hurt.

the President did have to leave his 5 week vacation 2 days early

 

[trevster2k]

Thank you for underscoring the real problem: taking sides. While you are busy doing so, people are suffering. There are no sides in a disaster - everyone gets hurt.

Everyone who has posted here expressing dismay about the rescue efforts which up to now have been relatively abysmal is doing so out of concern for the people who are suffering. Not to bash Bush, he just happens to be the guy in charge right now (ok, some are here to bash Bush too)

The real problem is not taking sides. It is getting those people in the Gulf Coast especially the folks in New Orleans to safety. And instead of me taking sides, should I be praising the pathetic initial efforts of authorities to prepare for the aftermath of the hurricane which was originally supposed to hit New Orleans directly as a Category 5? As reported by others, this was considered by experts to be the most devastating natural disaster to ever hit the US if it occurred. And it appears that apart from suggesting people leave the city, and not considering the fact that poor people did not have the means to escape, little else was done to prepare for the predicted cataclysmic disaster. Yeah, good job. I'm guilty as charged, taking sides, damn right! I agree with the mayor of New Orleans, time to get off their asses, stop patting each other on the back and continue the rescue efforts using every possible resource available.

 

[DaveC]

Also, Kanye West just went off on the NBC live show about how "President Bush doesn't care about black people."

There is video of it popping up all over.

Yet another reason for me to love 'Ye. He tells it like it is.

Fuck Bush, and fuck this government. Until this point, I've always had a disdain and lack of respect for this Republican monstrosity they call an administration. But to abandon thousands upon thousands of people to their deaths like this...this is just fucking inexcusable. It's sickening. It's morally repugnant. I've always had a distaste for Bush and this administration...but as a result of this...it's up to sheer hatred now.

Fucking unacceptable. Makes me wonder if the response would be any different if this kind of thing happened to say, Lower Manhattan.

God, to live in a part of the world where it would be easy to mount a coup d'etat...

 

[trevster2k]

Yet another reason for me to love 'Ye. He tells it like it is.

Fuck Bush, and fuck this government. Until this point, I've always had a disdain and lack of respect for this Republican monstrosity they call an administration. But to abandon thousands upon thousands of people to their deaths like this...this is just fucking inexcusable. It's sickening. It's morally repugnant. I've always had a distaste for Bush and this administration...but as a result of this...it's up to sheer hatred now.

Fucking unacceptable. Makes me wonder if the response would be any different if this kind of thing happened to say, Lower Manhattan.

God, to live in a part of the world where it would be easy to mount a coup d'etat...

Don't hold back Dave, tell us what you really feel.

 

[DaveC]

Me? Hold back?

You haven't read many of my posts, have you?

 

[jay canseco]

Sides? I don't see a good side to the Feds failure (as in good vs. evil). I don't see a rallying of congresspersons to get this going. It may be moving along now but it's an overall disgraceful failure.

We need to get way past seeing criticism of any politician as taking sides. No matter our political affiliation.

 

[Palace_Hero]

You can't argue with evidence like that.

 

[DaveC]

Don't drag that non-issue into this thread. That has nothing to do with what's being discussed here, and is already the subject of another thread here in FYM, in which I exposed this inane crap for the non-issue that it is.

 

[Palace_Hero]

Don't drag that non-issue into this thread. That has nothing to do with what's being discussed here, and is already the subject of another thread here in FYM, in which I exposed this inane crap for the non-issue that it is.

I didn't see that thread till after I posted it.