MERGED-->The Kerry Blunder+If you're in the military...

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Reading the prepared line is still ambiguous, it is a clunkly joke and he should apologise then fire the writer, or take a few days to backtrack and maintain some sort of attack until the election loosing face and sliding a few votes to the other side.
 
anitram said:


Not very much.

When you have Christopher "I have no party affiliation" Hitchens and Andrew "The Conservative Soul" Sullivan actually stating on CNN they believe Bush is unhinged and may be INSANE, then you know the Titanic is sinking.

Relax, George Bush will still be in office when U2 release their next studio album of all new material.:wink:
 
This brave woman wasn't stupid, what a tragedy Bush THE STUPID has created for our military.

Revealed: U.S. Soldier Killed Herself After Objecting to Interrogation Techniques
The true stories of how American troops, killed in Iraq, actually died keep spilling out this week. Now we learn, thanks to a reporter's FOIA request, that one of the first women to die in Iraq shot and killed herself after objecting to harsh "interrogation techniques."

By Greg Mitchell

(November 01, 2006) -- The true stories of how American troops, killed in Iraq, actually died keep spilling out this week. On Tuesday, we explored the case of Kenny Stanton, Jr., murdered last month by our allies, the Iraqi police, though the military didn’t make that known at the time. Now we learn that one of the first female soldiers killed in Iraq died by her own hand after objecting to interrogation techniques used on prisoners.

She was Army specialist Alyssa Peterson, 27, a Flagstaff, Az., native serving with C Company, 311th Military Intelligence BN, 101st Airborne. Peterson was an Arabic-speaking interrogator assigned to the prison at our air base in troubled Tal-Afar in northwestern Iraq. According to official records, she died on Sept. 15, 2003, from a “non-hostile weapons discharge.”

She was only the third American woman killed in Iraq so her death drew wide press attention. A “non-hostile weapons discharge” leading to death is not unusual in Iraq, often quite accidental, so this one apparently raised few eyebrows. The Arizona Republic, three days after her death, reported that Army officials “said that a number of possible scenarios are being considered, including Peterson's own weapon discharging, the weapon of another soldier discharging or the accidental shooting of Peterson by an Iraqi civilian.”

But in this case, a longtime radio and newspaper reporter named Kevin Elston, unsatisfied with the public story, decided to probe deeper in 2005, "just on a hunch," he told E&P today. He made "hundreds of phone calls" to the military and couldn't get anywhere, so he filed a Freedom of Information Act request. When the documents of the official investigation of her death arrived, they contained bombshell revelations. Here’s what the Flagstaff public radio station, KNAU, where Elston now works, reported yesterday:

“Peterson objected to the interrogation techniques used on prisoners. She refused to participate after only two nights working in the unit known as the cage. Army spokespersons for her unit have refused to describe the interrogation techniques Alyssa objected to. They say all records of those techniques have now been destroyed….”

She was was then assigned to the base gate, where she monitored Iraqi guards, and sent to suicide prevention training. “But on the night of September 15th, 2003, Army investigators concluded she shot and killed herself with her service rifle,” the documents disclose.

The Army talked to some of Peterson's colleagues. Asked to summarize their comments, Elston told E&P: "The reactions to the suicide were that she was having a difficult time separating her personal feelings from her professional duties. That was the consistent point in the testimonies, that she objected to the interrogation techniques, without describing what those techniques were."

Elston said that the documents also refer to a suicide note found on her body, revealing that she found it ironic that suicide prevention training had taught her how to commit suicide. He has now filed another FOIA request for a copy of the actual note.

Peterson's father, Rich Peterson, has said: “Alyssa volunteered to change assignments with someone who did not want to go to Iraq.”

Alyssa Peterson, a devout Mormon, had graduated from Flagstaff High School and earned a psychology degree from Northern Arizona University on a military scholarship. She was trained in interrogation techniques at Fort Huachuca in Arizona, and then sent to the Middle East in 2003.

The Arizona Republic article had opened: “Friends say Army Spc. Alyssa R. Peterson of Flagstaff always had an amazing ability to learn foreign languages.

“Peterson became fluent in Dutch even before she went on an 18-month Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints mission to the Netherlands in the late 1990s. Then, she cruised through her Arabic courses at the military's Defense Language Institute in Monterey, Calif., shortly after enlisting in July 2001.

“With that under her belt, she was off to Iraq to conduct interrogations and translate enemy documents.”

On a “fallen heroes” message board on the Web, Mary W. Black of Flagstaff wrote, "The very day Alyssa died, her Father was talking to me at the Post Office where we both work, in Flagstaff, Az., telling me he had a premonition and was very worried about his daughter who was in the military on the other side of the world. The next day he was notified while on the job by two army officers. Never has a daughter been so missed or so loved than she was and has been by her Father since that fateful September day in 2003. He has been the most broken man I have ever seen.”

An A.W. from Los Angeles wrote: "I met Alyssa only once during a weekend surfing trip while she was at DLI. Although our encounter was brief, she made a lasting impression. We did not know each other well, but I was blown away by her genuine, sincere, sweet nature. I don’t know how else to put it-- she was just nice.….I was devastated to here of her death. I couldn’t understand why it had to happen to such a wonderful person.”

Finally, Daryl K. Tabor of Ashland City, Tenn., who had met her as a journalist in Iraq for the Kentucky New Era paper in Hopkinsville: "Since learning of her death, I cannot get the image of the last time I saw her out of my mind. We were walking out of the tent in Kuwait to be briefed on our flights into Iraq as I stepped aside to let her out first. Her smile was brighter than the hot desert sun. Peterson was the only soldier I interacted with that I know died in Iraq. I am truly sorry I had to know any."
 
U2democrat said:
It was stupid what he said, he apologized sincerely, time to move on to real issues.

:up:

The Daily Show last night showed some video of Bush making some pretty shocking and IMO tasteless jokes about Iraq, and no one said a word about those at the time. I believe they were from the White House Correspondent's Dinner? Anyway, joking about the lack of WMD, when he was the one who put thousands of soldier's lives at risk? Meanwhile, Kerry flubs a line he was fed, and the GOPS beat it to death until it's ingrained in the consciousness of every citizen of the free world. I don't know whether to be disgusted or in awe of the Republican spin machine. If I ever wanted to promote a product or an ideology, I'd hire them to do it for me.
 
John Boener thinks it all the military's fault for losing in Iraq

Yesterday, on CNN, House Majority Leader John Boehner blamed the US military for losing the war in Iraq:


House Majority Leader John Boehner: Wolf, I understand that, but let's not blame what's happening in Iraq on Rumsfeld.

Wolf Blitzer: But he's in charge of the military.

House Majority Leader John Boehner: But the fact is the generals on the ground are in charge and he works closely with them and the president. [CNN, 11/1/06]

Given an opportunity to take back that comment, Boehner elected instead to stay the course.

A Boehner spokesman later insisted that blaming the military for losing the war is not criticizing the military
 
Blaming the military for losing the war isn't criticizing them?
What sort of twilight zone are we living in? :crazy:

Top Ten Kerry Excuses

10. Lightheaded from too much Botox

9. Hasn't been himself since he heard Bob Barker is retiring

8. Remark was an ill-conceived, careless blunder, kind of like the war :lol:

7. Just displaying that famous wit that cost him the 2004 election

6. Hoped saying something really stupid would make him seem more presidential :lol:

5. Too much Halloween candy

4. Relax, the election is months away

3. So I botched a joke -- Letterman does it every night

2. On the advice of his friend Mel Gibson, he's blaming it on the Jews

1. "Hey, it was still funnier than most of the jokes on this list"
 
The Kerry Blunder : Is this the "October Surprise" the republicans needed???

What do you think?
Is the Kerry Blunder exactly what the republicans needed to tip the scales in next weeks election???
You've really got to wonder how John Kerry could of been THAT stupid at this particular time.
Most so called" political pundits" are saying it may cost the democrats 1 or 2 seats in the really close races.
I say with the help of electronic voting machines and now this Kerry blunder the democrats could lose out and be 1 or 2 short of taking the house or the senate.
Or not.
We'll just have to wait and see.
 
It's not about changing someone's vote, supposedly it will mobilize people who would have voted Republican anyway. Some people think if those people wouldn't have voted, they would somehow now be so angry that they would. Seems to me they should be angry about other things.
 
The Kerry screw-up is going to be a neglible effect on this election. I agree, if people decide who to vote for because of a stupid joke, they shouldn't be voting.
 
First off if people actually look at the comment (unlike bush) and think about it they realize it was about Bush in the long run, which makes me laugh at Bush when he comments on it.

Secondly, like someone mentioned, I dont know why someone's comments, who's NOT even running for election has ANYTHING whatsoever to do with anything with this election. If you think it does then you shouldnt be voting anyway.
 
I agree with MrsS that it will mobilize disillusioned Republicans to vote next week.

That and announcing Saddam Hussein's deathy penalty verdict this coming Monday...a November Surprise this year lol.
 
It doesn't bother me if it affects Kerry's '08 chances. I want a candidate who didn't already biff his or her chance.
 
The only good thing to come out of this entire thing is he's less likley to run in '08. Not that I foresaw him being the nominee, but still.

I heard the Bush jokes from the White House media dinner and it irks me that such an issue wasn't made out of those. Those were far more offensive than any botched lame joke of Kerry's.
 
LarryMullen's_POPAngel said:
I heard the Bush jokes from the White House media dinner and it irks me that such an issue wasn't made out of those. Those were far more offensive than any botched lame joke of Kerry's.

:up:

And honestly, what politician HASN'T said something dumb or ill-advised along the line?

If you can think of one, just give them time. It'll come. You know why? They're human.
 
Leave it Billmon to have the best insight on this:

http://billmon.org/

The Joke's On Us
One of the overlooked ironies of John Kerry's "botched" joke was that under the Cheney Administration's glorious leadership in the Iraq War, what Kerry actually said -- that smart kids go to college and dumb kids end up stuck in Iraq -- is also on its way to becoming true: http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=121072

"Lowered standards have hardly remained the property of privateers these days. As Brad Knickerbocker of the Christian Science Monitor noted, "The Army has had to recruit more soldiers from the ‘lowest acceptable' category based on test scores, education levels, personal background, and other indicators of ability." Even Undersecretary of Defense Chu admitted in July that almost 40% of all military recruits scored in the bottom half of the Armed Forces' own aptitude test.

"Other how-low-can-you-go indicators of the military's desperation are now regularly surfacing in news reports. Here are two examples:

"Last year, the New York Times reported that two Ohio recruiters were quick to sign up a recruit "fresh from a three-week commitment in a psychiatric ward… even after the man's parents told them he had bipolar disorder -- a diagnosis that would disqualify him." After senior officers found out, the mentally ill man's enlistment was canceled, but in "nterviews with more than two dozen recruiters in 10 states," the Times heard others talk of "concealing mental-health histories and police records," among other illicit practices.

"In May of this year, the Oregonian reported that Army recruiters, using hard sell tactics and offering thousands of dollars in enlistment bonus money, signed up an autistic teenager "for the Army's most dangerous job: cavalry scout." The boy, who had been enrolled in "special education classes since preschool" and through "a special program for disabled workers…ha[d] a part-time job scrubbing toilets and dumping trash," didn't even know the U.S. was at war in Iraq until his parents explained it to him after he was first approached by a recruiter. Only following a flurry of negative publicity, did the Army announce that it would release the autistic teen from his enlistment obligation."
 
corianderstem said:


:up:

And honestly, what politician HASN'T said something dumb or ill-advised along the line?

If you can think of one, just give them time. It'll come. You know why? They're human.

This whole thing drives me crazy. Kerry is a buffoon, but this wasn't dumb; it wasn't ill-advised; it wasn't even a botched joke, really. It was a mis-statement.

He left off the word "us." "If you don't get educated, you'll get 'us' stuck in Iraq," referring to Bush.

But Kerry's so stiff he can't correct himself on the fly. And when he tries to explain what he meant, he makes it worse by saying it was a botched joke!

The botched joke apology sounds as if he MEANT to insult the troops, but it was a "just a joke" in bad taste y'know? Like..."yer gaining a little weight aren't you? Just kidding!" or "Soldiers are stupid, but it was just a joke....sorry."

Unbelievable. Now all these good people who don't really follow politics nor understand why Kerry would never in a MILLION years do this —with the help of right wing blowhards feigning indignation — think Kerry really hates the troops.

It's sick. And all these AM radio hacks are snickering behind their venom because they know the truth. But they also know their audience doesn't. And they'll exploit that for days.
 
SO if thats what it really was, why didn't he just say that? Because hes now trying to cover his arse!! I would hae had 10X more respect for someone who could just apologize and move on. ore like a botched apology if you ask me.
 
Re: If you're in the military, you're stupid.

Kerry needs to get the hell out of the limelight and keep his yap shut. Honestly, this guy had his shot against one of the worst governments in US history and blew it completely.

He's only doing harm to the Dems hanging around making the odd over-publicised blunder.

MaxFisher said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and do your homework, and make an effort to be smart, uh, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

John Kerry, pull your vapid head out of your ass.

And to all the intelligent, talented, hard-working people of the military, along with all the college students financing their education through the GI bill, thanks for undertaking such a thankless and important service to our country.

corianderstem said:


:up:

And honestly, what politician HASN'T said something dumb or ill-advised along the line?

If you can think of one, just give them time. It'll come. You know why? They're human.
It's the Howard Dean Effect. Sorry it comes down to this, but if you're the champion of the 'good guys' and you don't make it into the White House, you can't slip up like this.

Obviously you don't need to be articulate to make it in politics (Dubya), but when you're the opposition you've got a responsibility not to pull bufoonage when your party's in a vicious fight for congress.
 
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Did anyone see "Family Guy" on Sunday evening?

The show actually pulled the off "joke" Kerry failed at.

I haven't heard ANY Republican backlash from the show.
 
Bruce sent me this e-mail :wink: Today we will see...

Insulting Our Troops, and Our Intelligence, by Thomas L. Friedman
New York Times, November 3, 2006

George Bush, Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld think you're stupid. Yes, they do.

They think they can take a mangled quip about President Bush and Iraq by John Kerry -- a man who is not even running for office but who, unlike Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney, never ran away from combat service -- and get you to vote against all Democrats in this election.

Every time you hear Mr. Bush or Mr. Cheney lash out against Mr. Kerry, I hope you will say to yourself, "They must think I'm stupid." Because they surely do.

They think that they can get you to overlook all of the Bush team's real and deadly insults to the U.S. military over the past six years by hyping and exaggerating Mr. Kerry's mangled gibe at the president.

What could possibly be more injurious and insulting to the U.S. military than to send it into combat in Iraq without enough men -- to launch an invasion of a foreign country not by the Powell Doctrine of overwhelming force, but by the Rumsfeld Doctrine of just enough troops to lose? What could be a bigger insult than that?

What could possibly be more injurious and insulting to our men and women in uniform than sending them off to war without the proper equipment, so that some soldiers in the field were left to buy their own body armor and to retrofit their own jeeps with scrap metal so that roadside bombs in Iraq would only maim them for life and not kill them? And what could be more injurious and insulting than Don Rumsfeld's response to criticism that he sent our troops off in haste and unprepared: Hey, you go to war with the army you've got -- get over it.

What could possibly be more injurious and insulting to our men and women in uniform than to send them off to war in Iraq without any coherent postwar plan for political reconstruction there, so that the U.S. military has had to assume not only security responsibilities for all of Iraq but the political rebuilding as well? The Bush team has created a veritable library of military histories -- from "Cobra II" to "Fiasco" to "State of Denial" -- all of which contain the same damning conclusion offered by the very soldiers and officers who fought this war: This administration never had a plan for the morning after, and we've been making it up -- and paying the price -- ever since.

And what could possibly be more injurious and insulting to our men and women in Iraq than to send them off to war and then go out and finance the very people they're fighting against with our gluttonous consumption of oil? Sure, George Bush told us we're addicted to oil, but he has not done one single significant thing -- demanded higher mileage standards from Detroit, imposed a gasoline tax or even used the bully pulpit of the White House to drive conservation -- to end that addiction. So we continue to finance the U.S. military with our tax dollars, while we finance Iran, Syria, Wahhabi mosques and Al Qaeda madrassas with our energy purchases.

Everyone says that Karl Rove is a genius. Yeah, right. So are cigarette companies. They get you to buy cigarettes even though we know they cause cancer. That is the kind of genius Karl Rove is. He is not a man who has designed a strategy to reunite our country around an agenda of renewal for the 21st century -- to bring out the best in us. His "genius" is taking some irrelevant aside by John Kerry and twisting it to bring out the worst in us, so you will ignore the mess that the Bush team has visited on this country.

And Karl Rove has succeeded at that in the past because he was sure that he could sell just enough Bush cigarettes, even though people knew they caused cancer. Please, please, for our country's health, prove him wrong this time.

Let Karl know that you're not stupid. Let him know that you know that the most patriotic thing to do in this election is to vote against an administration that has -- through sheer incompetence -- brought us to a point in Iraq that was not inevitable but is now unwinnable.

Let Karl know that you think this is a critical election, because you know as a citizen that if the Bush team can behave with the level of deadly incompetence it has exhibited in Iraq -- and then get away with it by holding on to the House and the Senate -- it means our country has become a banana republic. It means our democracy is in tatters because it is so gerrymandered, so polluted by money, and so divided by professional political hacks that we can no longer hold the ruling party to account.

It means we're as stupid as Karl thinks we are.

I, for one, don't think we're that stupid. Next Tuesday we'll see.
 
"They think they can take a mangled quip about President Bush and Iraq by John Kerry -- a man who is not even running for office but who, unlike Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney, never ran away from combat service -- and get you to vote against all Democrats in this election."

Exactly. His point was government/Bush, not the soldiers themselves.
But Republicans have a strong PR machine so Kerry lost in 2004 and they turn everything, including 9/11, in their benefit.
 
I don't believe there's any direct correlation to that remark, I think that's just one thing among many others that make people feel that way about him

(AP) A Quinnipiac University "Thermometer Poll" was released Monday. The poll asks respondents to rank the warmth of their feelings for a particular politican on a scale of 0-100.

The top three and bottom three politicans in the ranking are listed below

Bottom three:

18) Sen. Bill Frist - 41.5

19) Sen. Harry Reid - 41.2

20) Sen. John Kerry - 39.6

Top three:

1) Rudolph Giuliani - 64.2

2) Sen. Barack Obama 58.8

3) Sen. John McCain 57.7

Full List:

1) Rudolph Giuliani - 64.2.
2) Sen. Barack Obama 58.8
3) Sen. John McCain 57.7
4) Condoleezza Rice - 56.1
5) Bill Clinton - 55.8
6) Sen. Joseph Lieberman - 52.7
7) NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg - 51.1
8) John Edwards - 49.9
9) Sen. Hillary Clinton - 49
10) N.M. Gov. Bill Richardson - 47.7
11) Sen. Joseph Biden 47
12) Nancy Pelosi 46.9
13) Gov. Mitt Romney - 45.9
14) Former VP Al Gore - 44.9
15) President George Bush - 43.8
16) Sen. Evan Bayh - 43.3
17) Newt Gingrich - 42
18) Sen. Bill Frist - 41.5
19) Sen. Harry Reid - 41.2
20) Sen. John Kerry - 39.6
 
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