MERGED-->The Kerry Blunder+If you're in the military...

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Dreadsox said:
I do not see the humor. I am trying to get how the remarks relate to Bush.
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Well unless and until we have a full transcript-if the msnbc article is accurate, it appears he was making a bunch of one liners about Bush that then led into the "joke" about Bush's intelligence/not doing well in school, etc. getting him/us stuck in Iraq. He didn't say us I imagine because it was just a continuation of the one liners (though in that context it should be clear he was referring to Bush I would think)- and it led to the proposed implication, when you take it out of context, that he was referring to the soldiers.

Republicans are jumping on this and completely disregarding what he really meant and that he just botched a joke because they're desperate-the truth stopped mattering a long time ago, on BOTH sides of the aisle.

All that being said, Kerry did just make a big mistake-one which will just lead to more attacks on Democrats and dredging up all kinds of irrelevant stuff for the purposes of political haymaking. I'd like to believe that most people could see through how his mistake is being manipulated. John Kerry is many things, but I find it to be a huge stretch of all things credible to suggest that he would make a comment like that.
 
I haven't checked out the context, but even out of context, wouldn't he have a point? How many kids have such a low level of education or so few job opportunities that joining the military is the only way for them to make ends meet? Getting a good education would make sure they don't have to join up for financial reasons, but it still allows them to do so for whatever other reason.
 
That's true Dr Teeth.

But this is a real failure for our soldiers and written by a conservative.
While the media is obsessed parsing the ad libs of someone on no ballot this fall, something truly ominous has just happened in Iraq. The commander-in-chief has abandoned an American soldier to the tender mercies of a Shiite militia. Yes, there are nuances here, and the NYT fleshes out the story today. But the essential fact is clear. In a showdown for control of Baghdad, the Iraqi prime minister took orders from Moqtada al-Sadr, and instructed the U.S. military to withdraw from Sadr City. The American forces were trying both to stabilize the city but also to find a missing American serviceman. He is still missing. Money quote from the WaPo:

The move lifted a near siege that had stood at least since last Wednesday. U.S. military police imposed the blockade after the kidnapping of an American soldier of Iraqi descent. The soldier's Iraqi in-laws said they believed he had been abducted by the Mahdi Army as he visited his wife at her home in the Karrada area of Baghdad, where U.S. military checkpoints were also removed as a result of Maliki's action.

The crackdown on Sadr City had a second motive, U.S. officers said: the search for Abu Deraa, a man considered one of the most notorious death squad leaders. The soldier and Abu Deraa both were believed by the U.S. military to be in Sadr City.

The U.S. military does not have a tradition of abandoning its own soldiers to foreign militias, or of taking orders from foreign governments. No commander-in-chief who actually walks the walk, rather than swaggering the swagger, would acquiesce to such a thing. The soldier appears to be of Iraqi descent who is married to an Iraqi woman. Who authorized abandoning him to the enemy? Who is really giving the orders to the U.S. military in Iraq? These are real questions about honor and sacrifice and a war that is now careening out of any control. They are not phony questions drummed up by a partisan media machine to appeal to emotions to maintain power.

And where, by the way, is McCain on this? Silent on Cheney's "no-brainer" on waterboarding. Silent recently on Iraq. But vocal - oh, how vocal - on Kerry. It tells you something about what has happened to him. And to America.
 
That is where the Democrats should be attacking this administration, on their weakness in Iraq; such as demanding Muqtada al-Sadr be brought to justice only to have his militias wreaking havok less than two years later or the pussyfooting around the problem of sectarian militias to get to the point today where foreign Islamist groups are shunned by locals but the militas recieve broad support.
 
DrTeeth said:
I haven't checked out the context, but even out of context, wouldn't he have a point? How many kids have such a low level of education or so few job opportunities that joining the military is the only way for them to make ends meet? Getting a good education would make sure they don't have to join up for financial reasons, but it still allows them to do so for whatever other reason.
Click to expand...
"Make an effort to be smart" suggests something rather different and considerably more condescending than that--being poor and without a college education (he was addressing college students) and being "stupid" (the opposite of smart, presumably) are obviously not one and the same. Also, as several posters have already mentioned, military service (e.g. ROTC, GI Bill) is what pays for a lot of young people's college educations to begin with. And of course there are people of all different educational backgrounds who have no economic need to consider enlisting, but choose to do so anyway.

However, if it's true that he simply left out an "us" ("get us stuck in Iraq") then obviously that changes completely who the intended subject of the phrase was. Even so, associating going to college with "making an effort to be smart," as if being college-educated is the only way to demonstrate that quality, was, well, stupid.
 
Kerry is right

Soldires do get stuck (and abandoned) in Iraq

by this Administration

They should study hard and go to college

they should not enlist

W is not to be trusted
Wednesday, November 1, 2006

Abandoning An American Soldier

01 Nov 2006 07:56 am



While the media is obsessed parsing the ad libs of someone on no ballot this fall, something truly ominous has just happened in Iraq.

The commander-in-chief has abandoned an American soldier to the tender mercies of a Shiite militia. Yes, there are nuances here, and the NYT fleshes out the story today. But the essential fact is clear. In a showdown for control of Baghdad, the Iraqi prime minister took orders from Moqtada al-Sadr, and instructed the U.S. military to withdraw from Sadr City. The American forces were trying both to stabilize the city but also to find a missing American serviceman. He is still missing.

The move lifted a near siege that had stood at least since last Wednesday. U.S. military police imposed the blockade after the kidnapping of an American soldier of Iraqi descent. The soldier's Iraqi in-laws said they believed he had been abducted by the Mahdi Army as he visited his wife at her home in the Karrada area of Baghdad, where U.S. military checkpoints were also removed as a result of Maliki's action.

The crackdown on Sadr City had a second motive, U.S. officers said: the search for Abu Deraa, a man considered one of the most notorious death squad leaders. The soldier and Abu Deraa both were believed by the U.S. military to be in Sadr City.

The U.S. military does not have a tradition of abandoning its own soldiers to foreign militias, or of taking orders from foreign governments. No commander-in-chief who actually walks the walk, rather than swaggering the swagger, would acquiesce to such a thing. The soldier appears to be of Iraqi descent who is married to an Iraqi woman. Who authorized abandoning him to the enemy? Who is really giving the orders to the U.S. military in Iraq? These are real questions about honor and sacrifice and a war that is now careening out of any control. They are not phony questions drummed up by a partisan media machine to appeal to emotions to maintain power.

And where, by the way, is McCain on this? Silent on Cheney's "no-brainer" on waterboarding. Silent recently on Iraq. But vocal - oh, how vocal - on Kerry. It tells you something about what has happened to him. And to America.
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phanan said:


Anything is better than Bush.
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Hitler is better than Bush your saying? What about the Jew Hating Iranian President. Much better than Bush eh..
 
Come on John if you're not stuck or relegated to Nantucket by now lend the boys a hand..
 

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He won't leave em stuck

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Bush has a plan to bring em home.


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^^

I think my soul dies a little bit just to admit this, but Cheney's quip is funnier than Kerry's. Even if Kerry had said it right.

:reject:
 
VertigoGal said:
question to anyone: How much do you think this whole drama will realistically affect the elections next week, if at all?
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Very little for next week.

Much more of an impact on the 08 Presidential election, where Kerry now officially has zero chance of becoming President.
 
VertigoGal said:
question to anyone: How much do you think this whole drama will realistically affect the elections next week, if at all?
Click to expand...

it could
on some very close races

espesically where some GOP voters were turned off, with foley and other GOP corruption

this may snap them back to 2004 when they had more enthusiasm

also, it gives the am GOP talk hosts
something to rant about
instead of trying to defend or explain Iraq mess
 
deep said:




also, it gives the am GOP talk hosts
something to rant about
instead of trying to defend or explain Iraq mess
Click to expand...

This is pretty much all of this is good for. This isn't an issue, it doesn't even deserve a thread.

But at least Rush will quit acting like an ass towards Micheal J Fox for awhile.
 
VertigoGal said:
question to anyone: How much do you think this whole drama will realistically affect the elections next week, if at all?
Click to expand...

Not very much.

When you have Christopher "I have no party affiliation" Hitchens and Andrew "The Conservative Soul" Sullivan actually stating on CNN they believe Bush is unhinged and may be INSANE, then you know the Titanic is sinking.
 
Diamond wrote:

"wizard2c may be correct by her assersion, however it's still a triple lose situation for Mr Kerry"

Diamond.....look up the word 'RESPECT' someday...it may help you through life. My words were not of politics but of someone willing to battle for people like you........don't they deserve more than this particular forum.

Remember....Mankind determines the future by the words Mankind chooses to use.

R E S P E C T

:|
 
If Kerry's comments alone shift a person's reason for voting, that person should not be allowed to vote for lack of brain cells.:|
 
I couldn't believe my eyes and ears when I saw that......how totally ignorant can people be??

Kerry should be ashamed of himself and get down on his knees and kiss the feet of every soldier willing to lay down his or her life to enable kerry to spout this garbage.
 
AchtungBono said:


Kerry should be ashamed of himself and get down on his knees and kiss the feet of every soldier willing to lay down his or her life to enable kerry to spout this garbage.
Click to expand...

Even though he misspoke and botched his joke and that's not what he meant to say at all? Even though in the context of his delivered speech and in the original written text of his speech it is clear he was referring to Bush?

Yes I think he should apologize all the same and he has, but it came too late. It didn't matter though, the Republicans and Tony Snow and Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and all the others would jump on it anyway.
 
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