MERGED: Terri Schiavo, Continued + Terri Schiavo (Died 3/31/2005)

[BVS]

DeLay was referring to a review of the constitutional power of judges and the checks that Congress might use to censure members of the judiciary who overstep their bounds, as he believes they did by ignoring an act of Congress.

I'm glad we have the GOP interpreter on board.

 

[drhark]

I'm glad we have the GOP interpreter on board.

to balance out Teddy the Democrat interpreter, suggesting perhaps DeLay meant knocking off judges.

Got to hand it to Teddy, he sure know how to grab headlines.

 

[MissMoo]

It didn't sound like he thought that Delay meant knocking off judges. It sounded like he thinks others will interpret Delay's words that way.

 

[shart1780]

All I know is....Terri is one strong individual. When she finally departs this earth, and is finally granted peace, she will shine the brighter in Heaven for all her sufferings.

She is like Andersen's Little Mermaid, whose spirit ascended from the foam and kissed both the Prince who had betrayed her and his new bride, which she had hoped to be, and forgave all. The "daughters of the air" are waiting to take her away. (Don't know what I'm talking about? Find a copy of the origional fairy tale, the REAL version, which Disney massacred. You will weep through the last 5 pages.)

A silent, smiling, small army of angels is hovering over the bed and around that hospice, waiting, waiting, to take her and lead her up and away to her Heavenly reward. They will say, Be at peace. Your suffering is over, you are in grace. Let all the murmering cease, let this be your eternal release. And she will ascend, away and above all the the lamentations and the sorrows of this divided Earth, with nothing but a gentle smile for all of us left in this Vale of Tears. She will pass through the Light and the Grey Rain Curtain will be turned back, and she will hear a sweet singing coming over the water. (Tolkien's words, that last, not mine.) And when she stands before the Throne, young and beautiful again, I have no doubt that the Master Himself might even descend and envelop her in His arms. And He will say: "Welcome Home at last. It is not for you to right the wrongs. It is not for you, to fault them. Here is your rest. Be at peace."

Oh my lord.

*pukes*

 

[nbcrusader]

*pukes*

Nice

 

[diamond]

The real story, contrary to the myoptic minded camped out trolls in FYM. FYM does not represent the majority of Americans:

Zogby Poll: Americans Not in Favor of Starving Terri Schiavo
Polls leading up to the death of Terri Schiavo made it appear Americans had formed a consensus in favor of ending her life. However, a new Zogby poll with fairer questions shows the nation clearly supporting Terri and her parents and wanting to protect the lives of other disabled patients.

The Zogby poll found that, if a person becomes incapacitated and has not expressed their preference for medical treatment, as in Terri's case, 43 percent say "the law presume that the person wants to live, even if the person is receiving food and water through a tube" while just 30 percent disagree.

Another Zogby question his directly on Terri's circumstances.

"If a disabled person is not terminally ill, not in a coma, and not being kept alive on life support, and they have no written directive, should or should they not be denied food and water," the poll asked.

A whopping 79 percent said the patient should not have food and water taken away while just 9 percent said yes.

"From the very start of this debate, Americans have sat on one of two sides," Concerned Women for America's Lanier Swann said in response to the poll. One side "believes Terri's life has worth and purpose, and the side who saw Michael Schiavo's actions as merciful, and appropriate."

More than three-fourths of Americans agreed, Swann said, "because a person is disabled, that patient should never be denied food and water."

The poll also lent support to members of Congress to who passed legislation seeking to prevent Terri's starvation death and help her parents take their lawsuit to federal courts.

"When there is conflicting evidence on whether or not a patient would want to be on a feeding tube, should elected officials order that a feeding tube be removed or should they order that it remain in place," respondents were asked.

Some 18 percent said the feeding tube should be removed and 42 percent said it should remain in place.

Swann said her group would encourage Congress to adopt legislation that would federal courts to review cases when the medical treatment desire of individuals is not known and the patient's family has a dispute over the care.

"According to these poll results, many Americans do in fact agree with what we're trying to accomplish," she said.

The poll found that 49 percent of Americans believe there should be exceptions to the right of a spouse to act as a guardian for an incapacitated spouse. Only 39 percent disagreed.

When asked directly about Terri's case and told the her estranged husband Michael "has had a girlfriend for 10 years and has two children with her" 56 percent of Americans believed guardianship should have been turned over to Terri's parents while 37 percent disagreed.

 

[melon]

Polls shmolls (trolls). I studied opinion polls and how you word something means everything. In other words, if the pollster has a bias, they can write a poll that accomodates whatever response they want, merely by using a different synonym.

I hope Congress is ready to enact national health care, because people in Terri's situation are unplugged on a regular basis by insurance companies. And are we ready to raise taxes to pay for the Medicaid burden as well? Even Bush, as governor, passed a law that would have unplugged Terri had she been on Texas state Medicaid.

This is pandering at its worst. With all the sick people in this nation, we're obsessed with feeding a woman who had a brain stem. Period. Now why don't we work to feed the millions of homeless who don't need feeding tubes?

Melon

 

[Irvine511]

that opinion poll demonstrates just how ignorant the american public is in regards to care for the dying.

it's also a reflection of how ultra-emotionalized the argument became, this nonsense of bringing her bread and water (which would have choked her to death).

i could go over, for probably the 6th time, just now normal it is to remove food and water from terminal cases as a means of letting nature take it's course ... but we still have those who insist that Terri was starved, as if she weren't brain dead but rather a child in Ethiopia in the mid-1980s, and as if the situations were even remotely comparable.

 

[trevster2k]

[

"If a disabled person is not terminally ill, not in a coma, and not being kept alive on life support, and they have no written directive, should or should they not be denied food and water," the poll asked.

[ [/B]

What is the definition of disabled? I would not deny a disabled person food or water either. People with disabilities still live fully functional lives. Terri Schiavo was not disabled in my opinion. The question has no bearing on the Schiavo situation.

 

[diamond]

just now normal it is to remove food and water from terminal cases as a means of letting nature take it's course ... but we still have those who insist that Terri was starved, as if she weren't brain dead but rather a child in Ethiopia in the mid-1980s, and as if the situations were even remotely comparable.

she wasn't terminal.
limited yes.
neglected by her husband by refusing anymore therapy after his financial settlement, yes.

but no, she was not terminal, and she was starved to death.
she wasted away for 2 weeks and there was nothing natural about the way she died.

db9

 

[melon]

she wasn't terminal.
limited yes.
neglected by her husband by refusing anymore therapy after his financial settlement, yes.

In 1990, when her heart stopped, the doctors recommended that she not be revived. Michael Shiavo, however, pushed for it anyway and she ended up in her "persistent vegetative state." He got his financial settlement in 1993, I believe. He and the Schindlers were actually on the same side until around 1998, where he believed she would never get better. In 1996, Terri had a CAT scan that showed conclusively that she was in a persistent vegetative state and that her cerebral cortex died and liquified. As such, it was 1998--two years after the CAT scan--that he pushed to the courts to let her die.

Saying that he "neglected her" is nothing but propaganda from her irate parents. Eight years of care prior to going to the court system is not the behavior of someone who "neglected her."

but no, she was not terminal, and she was starved to death.
she wasted away for 2 weeks and there was nothing natural about the way she died.

db9

Thousands of babies are born each year essentially in Terri's exact situation. Their cerebral cortex does not develop at all, for some reason, so all they have is a brain stem. They all die the same exact way too: by not being fed. Unless we want to address euthanasia in this country, this is the only way we will let people in their situation die.

No one said nature was fair, or that it fit in neat and tidy Christian categories. It just is.

Melon

 

[Irvine511]

she wasn't terminal.
limited yes.
neglected by her husband by refusing anymore therapy after his financial settlement, yes.

but no, she was not terminal, and she was starved to death.
she wasted away for 2 weeks and there was nothing natural about the way she died.

db9

i'll tell you what, diamond: send me an email, and i'll put you in touch with several doctors, and you can bring your concerns to them. they will assure you that this happens all the time, and is as natural as allowing an elderly person or, say, advanced AIDS patient die from not treating a pneumonia.

unless, of course, you'd like to see Netherlands-style doctor-administered euthanasia.

she was terminal in the sense that she wasn't getting any better and was not going to come out of her Permanent Vegetative State, and her legal guardian, her husband, and several other witnesses, testified in a cout of law, and won, that it would not have been her wish to stay on life support -- and such a sophistocated feeding tube *is* life support -- for so many years.

 

[jay canseco]

Thousands of babies are born each year essentially in Terri's exact situation.

Melon

This is what worries me about changes in legislation.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

So the majority of Americans don't agree with me on this issue (supposedly-as pointed out, polls can mean whatever you want them to mean). So what? There's lots of other issues in recent years that the majority of Americans supported or opposed that I disagreed with them on, and this is no exception. And just because it's the majority who thinks that way doesn't automatically mean that that makes their thoughts "the real story".

Ditto everything else Irvine and melon and trevester2k said, too.

Angela

 

[nbcrusader]

Sometimes a politician labels that as being "out of touch" with mainstream America.

It's an ugly world out there.

 

[Irvine511]

to balance out Teddy the Democrat interpreter, suggesting perhaps DeLay meant knocking off judges.

Got to hand it to Teddy, he sure know how to grab headlines.

got to hand it to the Republicans, they're again in agreement! you really can't be surprised when the public are going to hold these "unelected" "activist" judges "accountable" for their rulings.

just look at what Sen. Cronyn, R-TX had to say:

"I don't know if there is a cause-and-effect connection but we have seen some recent episodes of courthouse violence in this country. Certainly nothing new, but we seem to have run through a spate of courthouse violence recently that's been on the news and I wonder whether there may be some connection between the perception in some quarters on some occasions where judges are making political decisions yet are unaccountable to the public, that it builds up and builds up and builds up to the point where some people engage in - engage in violence."



utterly appaling. i used to think the country was turning into California, but now we're turning into Texas -- yes, redemptive justice through violence. that's the way to go.

fucking barbarians.

 

[melon]

Specious reasoning by the GOP, of course. I think violence on judges may be the result of the GOP openly decrying any rulings that they don't like and discrediting the judicial system. As such, convicts seem to feel that they are being "oppressed" by "unelected activist judges" and seem to have no problem with assaulting/killing them.

The GOP is starting to sound an awful lot like right-wing hate groups, who have been threatening judges for years.

Melon

 

[U2Bama]

I agree that it was an appalling implication made by Senator Cronyn. It also shows his ignorance, as the Georgia judge who was killed and the Illinois judge whose mother and husband were killed were not even considered "activist" judges.

~U2Alabama

 

[Irvine511]

i demand an apology and retraction from Sen. Cronyn.