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Old 03-20-2005, 09:14 PM   #91
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Wow. There are so many myths about this whole case, on both sides. This is all about far deeper motives and consequences. It is a sad time to be alive in this world today.
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Old 03-20-2005, 09:23 PM   #92
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The House is now voting on the bill.

12 minutes left, 122 yeas, 36 nays.
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Old 03-20-2005, 09:33 PM   #93
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It's passed.

Way to completely disregard years of judicial decisions, Congress!
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Old 03-20-2005, 09:43 PM   #94
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How many here either have or are very strongly considering getting a Living Will and/or Durable Power of Attorney for Health Care?
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Old 03-20-2005, 09:45 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Starving African children and dead Iraqi civilians are nothing more than nameless "collateral damage." Terri Shiavo and anti-abortion stances win votes. Revoking the death penalty and the lives they would save, no matter how "worthless" they seem, would not win votes.
Africa itself has been mentioned on this thread to a tremendous amount. The dead Iraqi civilians are a tragedy as well. However, America is America's top priority, not to disclude Africa, but frankly stating, America is sensibly the duty of the American government. As far as the whole abortion vs. death penalty debate, while I would like to stay on topic, I am with those who have no say in what happens to them. If I had to choose between defending the innocent or defending the guilty, the decision is pretty clear to me.

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Originally posted by melon
The irony, I believe, is that with all this talk about "the sanctity of life," life has never been as valueless as it is today.
Sadly I'm in agreement with this statement, but I believe it exists on both sides. Any life that could've been saved is a tragedy, plain and simple.

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Originally posted by melon
Your value and your freedom are determined by what will help political parties win votes. Nothing more, nothing less. "Morality" and "ethics" are dead. Or maybe they never existed.
One without a screwed on head could argue that Lincoln used the Civil War for political gain. I personally feel that starving an innocent person to death without their consent is rather unethical. Call it "pseudo-..." if you will, but that is where I stand.

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Originally posted by melon
So what do you all contribute to the majority to justify your existence?
I imagine Terri was a tax-paying, law-abiding citizen, and when I hear "she had her chance to save herself..." it just sickens me.
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Old 03-20-2005, 09:55 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Africa itself has been mentioned on this thread to a tremendous amount. The dead Iraqi civilians are a tragedy as well. However, America is America's top priority, not to disclude Africa, but frankly stating, America is sensibly the duty of the American government. As far as the whole abortion vs. death penalty debate, while I would like to stay on topic, I am with those who have no say in what happens to them. If I had to choose between defending the innocent or defending the guilty, the decision is pretty clear to me.
Your defense of America just reiterated my point, more or less.

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Sadly I'm in agreement with this statement, but I believe it exists on both sides. Any life that could've been saved is a tragedy, plain and simple.
I dunno. We'll kill prisoners without an after thought, but when we have a woman with quite literally just a brain stem that probably should have been pulled off of life support years ago (and, according to Florida law, feeding tubes are considered "life support"), we refuse to allow her to die. It will continue to puzzle me why so many Christians seem so insanely afraid of death, despite believing in an afterlife. Terri would be better off that way.

Quote:
One without a screwed on head could argue that Lincoln used the Civil War for political gain. I personally feel that starving an innocent person to death without their consent is rather unethical. Call it "pseudo-..." if you will, but that is where I stand.
Well, we'll have to agree to disagree here.

Quote:
I imagine Terri was a tax-paying, law-abiding citizen, and when I hear "she had her chance to save herself..." it just sickens me.
We can have all the hope in the world. I also know that America has a strong tradition of "rooting for the underdog." We're waiting for that cinematic "miracle" ending, where Terri suddenly starts talking and gets up. Unfortunately, life is not that simple or that kind. Whether or not she is eventually detached from the feeding tube or allowed to linger like this indefinitely, it doesn't change the fact that she's literally a person with a brain stem, as her cerebral cortex literally died and disintegrated. It won't be coming back, and, as such, she will never improve. Period.

As such, it is my view that keeping her alive like this, in its most basic state, is cruel.

Melon
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Old 03-20-2005, 10:19 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon

Terri Shiavo gives the GOP a golden opportunity to pander to the Religious Right, and it is their hope that they'll win more votes come Election Day. Helping starving African children does not win votes. Period. In other words, with all this talk about "the value of life," it is only those lives that "contribute" that matters, at least in the eyes of politicians and probably most people.
Melon
I've been watching this case very closely simply because I have lived it.
My youngest son was born in 1980 and shortly after his birth.
the doctors became aware (because I already knew) of the magnitude of his disabilities.
In most cases a child like my son, Paul, would have died within 2 years, which I actually laugher at. according to his occupational yearsand physical therapist. I prepared myself for that eventual outcome. 5 years went by. then 10..then 3 more. He passed away in 1993 I had to start all over again.
Still working on that .. But still don't consider it grounds to remove her feeding tube
remove her feeding tube, without some kind of proof or parental consent.

No

So with this said, I have a written will that states I do not want to be kept alive "indefinitely" by artificial means.
But I'm not sure I can actually request that any longer?
Who's to say?
If someone comes in to contest it, what then?
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Old 03-20-2005, 10:21 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by sue4u2
I've been watching this case very closely simply because I have lived it.
My youngest son was born in 1980 and shortly after his birth.
the doctors became aware (because I already knew) of the magnitude of his disabilities.
In most cases a child like my son, Paul, would have died within 2 years, which I actually laugher at. according to his occupational yearsand physical therapist. I prepared myself for that eventual outcome. 5 years went by. then 10..then 3 more. He passed away in 1993 I had to start all over again.
I'd hate to break off the topic, but I'm very sorry to hear about that.
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Old 03-21-2005, 02:48 AM   #99
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Let her die, but not starvation ~ have her properly euthanased.

Don't need to get all high and mighty about human life ~ it is cheap. I would neither expect nor desire to be kept in a purgatory of living death for decades after being rendered mentally unfit or completely physically unable. It may sound cold and harsh but realistically what quality of life is there, how much money would it cost to keep her in that state ~ this is not an argument along the lines of a morbid eugenics style removal of individuals who are not up to spec ~ a case where nothing can be done to help here and in all probability will never be able to.

This act by the politicians has nothing to do with religion, this is all politics and it is a case where the President and Republican Party has stepped on the toes of the seperation of the powers.
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Old 03-21-2005, 05:13 AM   #100
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Of course the husband turned down money, I think it would have made him look rather bad if he had taken it. If he has moved on w/ his life, why hasn't he "moved on" with this? Why hasn't he gotten a divorce? Not for me to say, but I do wonder. Her family has said he has "warehoused" Terri since 1992 and has not obtained the proper therapy for her, etc.

Who knows what the true situation is? Maybe somewhere in between the two versions?

I've said numerous times that I wouldn't want to be kept alive like that, but I don't fault her parents and family one bit for fighting it- I've never been in their shoes so I cannot pass judgment on them.

I think it's a valid point that some people have made-that convicted murderers like Scott Peterson have the right to federal review before they die, so why shouldn't an innocent person like Terri? Yet at the same time it makes me uneasy to have the federal govt involved in this.
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Old 03-21-2005, 06:27 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Let her die, but not starvation ~ have her properly euthanased.

Don't need to get all high and mighty about human life ~ it is cheap. I would neither expect nor desire to be kept in a purgatory of living death for decades after being rendered mentally unfit or completely physically unable. It may sound cold and harsh but realistically what quality of life is there, how much money would it cost to keep her in that state ~ this is not an argument along the lines of a morbid eugenics style removal of individuals who are not up to spec ~ a case where nothing can be done to help here and in all probability will never be able to.

This act by the politicians has nothing to do with religion, this is all politics and it is a case where the President and Republican Party has stepped on the toes of the seperation of the powers.
Let it be heard that I agree whole-hartedly with A_Wanderer....

What congress has done, frankly, scares me.
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Old 03-21-2005, 06:56 AM   #102
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what a waste of time, energy, and resources.

congress has better things to do, like tackle the burning issue of steroid use in baseball.

oh wait ... that's an utter waste of everyone's time, too.
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Old 03-21-2005, 08:02 AM   #103
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all i can think of is Miracle Drug right now...
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Old 03-21-2005, 08:22 AM   #104
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Republicans are out of control. What legal repercussions will protect the constitution?
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Old 03-21-2005, 08:24 AM   #105
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Quote:
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U2Kitten, not even when he has turned down one or two offers of money to walk away? Also, it is not naive to believe that people may be doing what their spouse would have desired.
But as I said he as her legal spouse may never be free. He wants her GONE for good so he can 'move on.'

Quote:
I have wondered exactly what you have said, but I realize that that is speculation and am merely pointing out that that may be completely wrong.
And what if I'm not? You don't know either, so if there is to be an assumption, or an error, I say it's better to be on the side of the person not dying, just in case.
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