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Old 03-20-2005, 02:43 PM   #76
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

5. It is my further opinion that Ms Schiavo’s present condition be investigated immediately by means of a simple test of functional brain imaging. If this test shows recoverable brain function, it is a mandatory obligation from a medical standpoint that Ms Schiavo receive the proper therapy. In my opinion, to forego treatment of this patient and deny her nutrition and hydration amounts to murder.
exactly! how can you know if someone is brain dead or in a persistant vegitative state if you have never performed a simple neurological exam?
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Old 03-20-2005, 02:44 PM   #77
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And you don't think Dr. Neubauer isn't biased?
Of course he has a point of view. His is based on firsthand evidence, knowledge of hyperbaric therapy, and years of professional experience.
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Old 03-20-2005, 02:48 PM   #78
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she has never had a full neurological exam. she has never had an mri. she has never had a brainscan. her husband denies her any basic kinds of physical therapy. he refuses to let her go outside.
Yes, she has. She has a brain stem and dead cerebral cortex. It's clearly dead too, because it decomposed and there is spinal fluid where brain once was. With only a brain stem, she is not conscious; the brain stem only transmits involuntary reflexes.

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she has been in a hospice for five years. a hospice is a place that people go to die, usually very quickly. her husband refuses to let her be transfered out of the hospice into a treatment center.
She cannot go to a treatment center, because she does not have enough brain function to be in a treatment center.

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however, that is NOT her situation, and until it is, the removal of her feeding tube is only causing her to die the same excrutiating death that any of us would face if our only means of acquiring nutrition was deprived us.
I worked on an entire website on terminal illness and death back in 2001. I learned more about death than I ever really needed or wanted to know. It is not an "excrutiating death." For the dying, it is actually "excrutiating" to force-feed or force-hydrate someone who does not want it. In hospices, before they understood this, there were often cases of patients drowning of accumulated fluid in their lungs, because a dying person loses the ability to process fluids.

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Old 03-20-2005, 02:50 PM   #79
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What pisses me off in all this is how fast Congress is moving to try and get the feeding tube reinserted.

They moved within a day to try and save one solitary brain dead lady in Florida who is dying of dehydration and starvation.

But they don't move at all to save millions of children in Africa dying of dehydration and starvation.

Boy, priorities sure are nice to have sometimes, eh?
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Old 03-20-2005, 02:51 PM   #80
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Of course he has a point of view. His is based on firsthand evidence, knowledge of hyperbaric therapy, and years of professional experience.
There is a scientific process out there to try and eliminate "bias," so that's why they have several doctors looking for ways to "reproduce" effects. The scientific process has deemed his and similar opinions to be non-credible. Sorry to say it, but it's true. One doctor's affidavit isn't going to somehow undercut seven years and several doctors' worth of study in this case. She has gotten a "due process" that no other patient has ever received. There is a reason that every judge has sided with her husband over all these years.

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Old 03-20-2005, 02:54 PM   #81
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Originally posted by DaveC
What pisses me off in all this is how fast Congress is moving to try and get the feeding tube reinserted.

They moved within a day to try and save one solitary brain dead lady in Florida who is dying of dehydration and starvation.

But they don't move at all to save millions of children in Africa dying of dehydration and starvation.

Boy, priorities sure are nice to have sometimes, eh?
Helping Africa would require a hell of a lot more money than this; money that would likely come in large part from taxpayers. When you're talking about taxes, it's easy to lose the support of the people who voted you in. I'm not saying that's a valid excuse/reason, I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's the way it is.

Africa should absolutely be a top priority though.
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Old 03-20-2005, 02:56 PM   #82
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Hold on.

Her cerebral cortex is gone? I mean, not just non-functional, but GONE?

How are you supposed to rehabilitate something that isn't there?
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Old 03-20-2005, 02:58 PM   #83
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Hold on.

Her cerebral cortex is gone? I mean, not just non-functional, but GONE?

How are you supposed to rehabilitate something that isn't there?
Precisely. Like I said before, there is a reason that every judge has sided with her husband.

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Old 03-20-2005, 03:06 PM   #84
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Originally posted by namkcuR
Hold on.

Her cerebral cortex is gone? I mean, not just non-functional, but GONE?

How are you supposed to rehabilitate something that isn't there?
Disappeared. As in, not there.

Brain stem is all with some bits of decomposed cortex, according to one doctor.
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Old 03-20-2005, 04:25 PM   #85
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Sorry about being cold and harsh earlier. I was trying to make a point about using reason alone when it comes up against the wishes of loved ones. I really should have gone on to clarify at that time.
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Old 03-20-2005, 04:58 PM   #86
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At 12:01 a.m, Monday, her parents get to seek a federal court order to get tube reinserted. Congress and President have come through for the parents.

Aside from this case, I find it remarkably ridiculous how politicians condemn and praise courts at the same time. Or course, it all depends on the issue. What a load of bull! Either the courts are interfering in society or they are contributing to the betterment of man. If politicians disagree with courts, apparently now they can just overrule them with some legislation. So much for democracy and the rule of law.

Anyway, assuming federal judge allows reinsertion, tune in again when they decide to remove the tube again for a fourth time. Amazing.
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Old 03-20-2005, 08:18 PM   #87
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Originally posted by DaveC


But they don't move at all to save millions of children in Africa dying of dehydration and starvation.

Boy, priorities sure are nice to have sometimes, eh?
or imagine if they put all their energy into stem cell research, getting out of iraq, etc it is maddening to an extreme degree.
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Old 03-20-2005, 08:33 PM   #88
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Boy, priorities sure are nice to have sometimes, eh?
This reminds me of something the late gay activist, Harry Hay, once said. He said something to the extent that, for a minority group, you cannot demand respect; you must prove that you contribute something invaluable to the majority. (He didn't say those exact words, but it was to that effect.)

I keep those words in mind often, because it's true. Terri Shiavo gives the GOP a golden opportunity to pander to the Religious Right, and it is their hope that they'll win more votes come Election Day. Helping starving African children does not win votes. Period. In other words, with all this talk about "the value of life," it is only those lives that "contribute" that matters, at least in the eyes of politicians and probably most people.

Starving African children and dead Iraqi civilians are nothing more than nameless "collateral damage." Terri Shiavo and anti-abortion stances win votes. Revoking the death penalty and the lives they would save, no matter how "worthless" they seem, would not win votes.

The irony, I believe, is that with all this talk about "the sanctity of life," life has never been as valueless as it is today. Your value and your freedom are determined by what will help political parties win votes. Nothing more, nothing less. "Morality" and "ethics" are dead. Or maybe they never existed.

So what do you all contribute to the majority to justify your existence?

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Old 03-20-2005, 08:47 PM   #89
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I can't believe what is going on at this very minute. Amazing.
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Old 03-20-2005, 08:53 PM   #90
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Originally posted by trevster2k
Aside from this case, I find it remarkably ridiculous how politicians condemn and praise courts at the same time. Or course, it all depends on the issue. What a load of bull! Either the courts are interfering in society or they are contributing to the betterment of man. If politicians disagree with courts, apparently now they can just overrule them with some legislation. So much for democracy and the rule of law.
I haven't seen the specific text of this law, but if it is written to apply solely to Terri Shiavo and not everyone in her situation, the law may get declared unconstitutional. The Constitution, itself, prohibits writing laws directed at specific persons. This was because the British had a habit of passing laws that declared specific individuals that they didn't like as criminals.

I'll be curious to see how it turns out.

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