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Old 03-19-2005, 02:57 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by namkcuR
If Michael Schiavo legitimately wanted Terri's life to end because he wanted to set her free, to end her suffering, I'd say I agree, let her go peacefully. However, I am FAR from convinced that Michael Shiavo is being driven by motives that pure. The fact is that he has two children with another woman with whom he has been living for a long time. It feels very much like more than anything he wishes Terri's life to end because he wants to get rid of the annoyance of 'dealing' with her, to get rid of that thorn in his ass. And I can't say I can encourage Terri's 'mercy killing' when it is wanted for those WRONG reasons.
give me a break

she is in a permanent veg. state

he has moved on

Her parents have not.


Quote:
Originally posted by namkcuR
. Also, I have read things(albiet from biased sources) saying that in a test to see if she understood the concept of her death, Terri was told that she would die if she didn't get out of her chair, and that she did indeed try to get out of her chair. Make what you will of that.

"Make what you will of that."

complete bullshit





Quote:
However, I think maybe they wouldn't be wrong to looker deeper into one Michael Schiavo. The man is not all he appears to be. I understand that he has sole guardianship over Terri, but in my book, if you're in his shoes, and you don't even care what her parents think/want, you are scum, and/or you have another agenda. I think it is only fair to Terri that someone find out what this other agenda is.
they did look into it

the court decided that it was correct that she had indicated in verbal testimony that she did not want this


and that her husband was her guardian
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Old 03-19-2005, 03:22 PM   #47
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Re: Congress and Schiavo

Quote:
Originally posted by BonosSaint
What do you think about Congress getting involved in the Schiavo case?

Florida is a hotly contested state.

The GOP cannot afford to lose even one vote.
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Old 03-19-2005, 04:14 PM   #48
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I vote against reason in this case. When all rational conclusions result in the total devastation of two parents, it can't be right.

Even if you argue that they are being irrational and selfish, most parents are when it comes to their kids. And who are we to say a love is worth saving or not.
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Old 03-20-2005, 07:46 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by jay canseco
I vote against reason in this case. When all rational conclusions result in the total devastation of two parents, it can't be right.

Even if you argue that they are being irrational and selfish, most parents are when it comes to their kids. And who are we to say a love is worth saving or not.
I think her parents have an unhealthy attachment to their child to the point of a selfish dependency/insanity. We talk about "tough love" once in a while; well, we have two unfortunate parents who have never been able to let go and are grasping for straws.

They've accused her husband of ignoring their "Roman Catholic" religion. As a former Catholic myself (I couldn't take their hypocrisy any longer), I know damn well that line is bullshit. Here's a direct quote from the "Catechism of the Catholic Church," which is their "official" book of what the Vatican believes:

Quote:
"2278 Discontinuing medical procedures that are burdensome, dangerous, extraordinary, or disproportionate to the expected outcome can be legitimate; it is the refusal of "over-zealous" treatment. Here one does not will to cause death; one's inability to impede it is merely accepted. The decisions should be made by the patient if he is competent and able or, if not, by those legally entitled to act for the patient, whose reasonable will and legitimate interests must always be respected.

2279 Even if death is thought imminent, the ordinary care owed to a sick person cannot be legitimately interrupted. The use of painkillers to alleviate the sufferings of the dying, even at the risk of shortening their days, can be morally in conformity with human dignity if death is not willed as either an end or a means, but only foreseen and tolerated as inevitable Palliative care is a special form of disinterested charity. As such it should be encouraged.
But, of course, while the Shiavos are busy smearing Catholicism to further their "over-zealous" cause, where are the Bishops to speak up? That's right. They're too busy kissing up to the Republican Party. Hypocrites.

And ask someone who works in hospice sometime what they think about feeding/hydrating someone who is dying. They will tell you that it is the last thing you want to do, because the body actually physically refuses food or water and you actually lose the ability to swallow as one of the steps of dying. It is not a miserable or painful way of dying; it is, in fact, one of the most peaceful. It is how nature intended it.

I feel sorry for everyone all around in this case, but someone has to be the voice of reason here. We have religious groups treating this like an anti-abortion rally, when this has absolutely nothing to do with abortion. We have disabled groups treating this like an anti-discrimination rally, when we're not talking about euthanizing quadripeligics (I hope I spelled that right), who have their full mental faculties and truly can live a full life. We have every special interest group under the sun here that are all ignoring the specifics of this case to further an "over-zealous" agenda.

I'm sorry. This is one of those unfortunate consequences of having artificial means of life support. There just comes a time where you have to let go.

Melon
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Old 03-20-2005, 07:52 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel


Exactly. This affects a specific family, therefore, that family and that family alone should deal with this situation. The government should have no say in this stuff.

Angela
It should be family, but that's a problem. Her husband wants her to die, her parents and siblings want her to live. So there's a conflict. I hate to be cynical, but having known so many people with bad marriages I can't help but think the husband should not be the one to have the final say. After all, it could be he didn't love her anymore, or did before she was disabled but now is tired of dealing with her and wants to be free to 'move on', while the blood kin will love her forever, no matter what. I don't trust the husband. If there is nothing proven to have been written by Terri stating she didn't want to be kept alive this way, then error on the side of safety and let her have a chance to live. It would mean something to her family. If the husband wants out I'm sure something legal can be arranged without letting her die.

I also have a problem with just letting her starve over several weeks. That's cruel. It's not the same thing as pulling the plug on someone unconscious who would die within a few minutes or hours. This is disturbing.

For the record, I do believe in the 'right to die' for people in their right minds, or people who have left official and verifyable instructions of their wishes (aka living will, etc.) But this case bothers me for the reasons I stated above.
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Old 03-20-2005, 08:01 AM   #51
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never take away the gift of life.....................NEVER
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Old 03-20-2005, 08:31 AM   #52
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U2 Kitten, I don't think that makes sense. If her husband just wants her out of his life, her family would be happy to take over. I think the fact is that the court appointed doctors say she is brain dead and the husband says she has said she wouldn't want to be kept alive. It seems that (since money has been ruled out) may be the reason he wants to stop feeding her.
As an aside, what if she didn't get along at all with her parents when she was alive? Don't most eating disorders come from family problems? Just a thought.
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Old 03-20-2005, 09:19 AM   #53
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This is not about life anymore, she is not alive, she exists. That is not living.

The only positive thing from this media/political exposure on this one person will be a social discussion on dignity in death as opposed to a pathetic, bedridden, and painful or overmedicated lingering passing.

People die, that is part of life too.
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Old 03-20-2005, 09:31 AM   #54
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Originally posted by MissMoo
U2 Kitten, I don't think that makes sense. If her husband just wants her out of his life, her family would be happy to take over. I think the fact is that the court appointed doctors say she is brain dead and the husband says she has said she wouldn't want to be kept alive. It seems that (since money has been ruled out) may be the reason he wants to stop feeding her.
Oh I think it makes a LOT of sense, there are people like that, don't be naive. He SAID she wouldn't want to be kept alive, but where is the proof? His word? Not enough. And I'd never rule money out.

Quote:
As an aside, what if she didn't get along at all with her parents when she was alive? Don't most eating disorders come from family problems? Just a thought.
This is just as much speculation as mine against the husband. But at least they want her, he doesn't.

and nam, I didn't know the story of the husband's personal life. Now I am even more convinced he wants to be 'free' to 'move on' As her legal husband, he may never be free of financial responsibility as long as she's alive, and I don't think you can divorce someone not in their right mind to speak for themselves, so he could feel 'trapped.' Even if there were a divorce, the courts may still demand some type of 'alimony' or money from him. Also, as long as she were alive, she'd be 'baggage' that interfered with his his new life and wife. From the possible guilt and shame to the unlikely but not impossible chance that she might improve one day, he just wants to be rid of her. Sorry if her blood kin were the ones fighting for her 'wishes' I'd be more convinced it was what she really wanted. But if it's just the husband, nah, I've seen too much in my life to fall for that without serious questions and suspicions.
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Old 03-20-2005, 10:23 AM   #55
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http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

Pretty much every question answered about this case to some degree or another.
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Old 03-20-2005, 10:57 AM   #56
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Sorry to keep this going as I don't see a good outcome either way.

It seems like a perfect conflict between reason and freedom of religion. At some point you can't rely on reason without conflicting with someones beliefs.

It really has to be up to those directly involved. T.S. missed her chance to make that decision. Her husband has done the right thing by moving on. Her parents can't. But their beliefs are as valid to me as those of any religion.
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Old 03-20-2005, 11:01 AM   #57
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U2Kitten, not even when he has turned down one or two offers of money to walk away? Also, it is not naive to believe that people may be doing what their spouse would have desired. I have wondered exactly what you have said, but I realize that that is speculation and am merely pointing out that that may be completely wrong.
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Old 03-20-2005, 11:34 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by babyman
never take away the gift of life.....................NEVER
no less than 15 periods on your statement...

in all seriousness, if i was in her situation, i wouldn't give a rat's ass and two shits if a firesquad blew my fucking head off. even if the husband is the evil sob that people make him out to be, it's just one person and she's better off dead anyways. i guarantee you she doesn't want a feeding tube for the rest of her unnatural life. i guarantee she would feel that her privacy is being invaded. the religious right just doesn't get it. it seems that the god they believe in is all about suffering the most.
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Old 03-20-2005, 11:36 AM   #59
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From what i have read and heard, Terri's husband sounds like a pretty rotten guy. Who knows what is really going on inside the head of Terri, but she should decide her own fate(if it is possible).
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Old 03-20-2005, 11:47 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonosloveslave
http://www.terrisfight.org/
Im with BLS on this


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