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Old 03-29-2005, 04:34 PM   #481
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


To the same point, does it not seem strange that Michael Schiavo insists on maintaining control of the situation leader to her death. If he had surrendered custody of Terri to her parents, we would hear nothing of this case.
If he truly believed this isn't what she wanted why would he do that? I've seen a lot talk about he's a jerk, but I haven't seen anything where it show what he gets out of this.
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Old 03-29-2005, 06:09 PM   #482
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Jackson joins fight over feeding tube

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PINELLAS PARK, Florida (CNN) -- The Rev. Jesse Jackson arrived Tuesday at Terri Schiavo's hospice and called on Florida lawmakers to have the brain-damaged woman's feeding tube reinserted.

"This is one of the profound moral, ethical issues of our time, the saving of Terri's life," the civil rights leader said. "And today we pray for a miracle."

Persuasive, or just looking for publicity?
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Old 03-29-2005, 06:26 PM   #483
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Jackson joins fight over feeding tube




Persuasive, or just looking for publicity?

His motives are suspect?
While others are not?


Do you have some kind of bias here?





I will admit I do have my bias'.
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Old 03-29-2005, 09:03 PM   #484
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I'm not surprised by your comment.


It is, however, awfully late in the game to champion this case
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Old 03-29-2005, 09:13 PM   #485
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http://codeblueblog.blogs.com/codebl...dblogs_co.html
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CSI MEDBLOGS: CSI MEDBLOGS: CODEBLUEBLOG ANALYZES TERRI SCHIAVO'S CT OF THE BRAIN

THIS BRAIN IS NOT THAT BAD

Thanks to reader "primer" I've been directed to the University of Miami Ethics program website where they posted this image from a CT scan of Terri Schiavo's brain in 1996. The sentence attached to the link for this scan on the site says:

CT scan of Ms. Schiavo's brain, showing extensive cortical regions filled with spinal fluid.

If you go to this link you can see the scan in a larger reproduction.

A COURT OF MEDICAL LIGHTWEIGHTS WEIGH IN ON TERRI'S CT.

The Second District's first opinion in this case explained:

Since 1990, Theresa has lived in nursing homes with constant care. She is fed and hydrated by tubes. The staff changes her diapers regularly. She has had numerous health problems, but none have been life threatening.

Over the span of this last decade, Theresa's brain has deteriorated because of the lack of oxygen it suffered at the time of the heart attack. By mid 1996, the CAT scans of her brain showed a severely abnormal structure. At this point, much of her cerebral cortex is simply gone and has been replaced by cerebral spinal fluid. Medicine cannot cure this condition. Unless an act of God, a true miracle, were to recreate her brain, Theresa will always remain in an unconscious, reflexive state, totally dependent upon others to feed her and care for her most private needs.

First, I contest the theory that Terri's brain actively continues to degenerate as implied by the above statement. How could they gage serial brain degeneration without serial follow-up? And by what mechanism would her brain CONTINUE to atrophy? Second, Terri's cerebral cortex has not been replaced by fluid. That is inaccurate. The cortex is thinned and the sulci are enlarged. There is a difference.

Third, and most importantly, given the amount of atrophy on this image I disagree with the court's inadequately considered conclusion.

My Grandmother's Brain -- OK -- But Would I Stop Feeding My Grandmother?

First of all, the University of Miami's appellation for this scan is inaccurate. "Cortical regions" are not and can not be filled with spinal fluid. The sulci (spaces between cortical ribbons) are enlarged secondary to cortical atrophy and these sulci are filled with cerbrospinal fluid.

The most alarming thing about this image, however, is that there certainly is cortex left. Granted, it is severely thinned, especially for Terri's age, but I would be nonplussed if you told me that this was a 75 year old female who was somewhat senile but fully functional, and I defy a radiologist anywhere to contest that.

I HAVE SEEN MANY WALKING, TALKING, FAIRLY COHERENT PEOPLE WITH WORSE CEREBRAL/CORTICAL ATROPHY. THEREFORE, THIS IS IN NO WAY PRIMA FACIE EVIDENCE THAT TERRI SCHIAVO'S MENTAL ABILITIES OR/OR CAPABILITIES ARE COMPLETELY ERADICATED. I CANNOT BELIEVE SUCH TESTIMONY HAS BEEN GIVEN ON THE BASIS OF THIS SCAN.

The worrisome, no alarming thing, for me, was that I heard a bioethicist and several important figures on the major media describe Terri's brain as MUCH WORSE. One "expert" said that she had a "bag of water" in her head. Several experts described her as a "brain stem preparation"

These statements are wholly inaccurate. This is an atrophied brain, yes, but there is cortex remaining, and where there's cortex (?life) there's hope.

If you starve this woman to death it would be, in my professional and experienced medical opinion, the equivalent of starving to death a 75-85 year old person. I would take that to the witness stand.

All That Glitters is a SHUNT

Next mystery: Why is there a shunt in Terri's ventricle? This CT image is "flipped" (i.e. the CT scan is mirror-image backwards which is just an inconsequential error made when scanning the image into the computer), so the right side is LEFT and vice versa. However, everyone can see, easily, the ovoid white object sitting in the front of the big black butterfly in the center of Terri's brain, correct?

That shining object is the tip of a shunt. A shunt is a tube inserted into the brain to reduce pressure caused by build-up of cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) in the brain. That big black butterfly in the middle of Terri's brain is her ventricular system, which holds the CSF and in Terri's case, it is enlarged (dilated).

Now...why was Terri being shunted in 1996? First, if Terri's brain damage was due to oxygen deprivation, her enlarged ventricles would be by a passive mechanism -- which is not amenable to shunting -- not by obstruction of the egress of CSF. To me, the presence of a shunt indicates obstruction to the flow of CSF that needs to be circumvented. Obstruction to flow is hard to postulate given the mechanism of Terri's brain injury (oxygen deprivation).

It would NOT be hard to postulate, however, if she had BLOOD in her head at some point in the past. So did she? Was there a history of trauma? I would like to see the BONE SCAN taken of Terri that purportedly showed evidence of traumatic type osseous uptake!


It is quite unusual to see high-pressure hydrocephalus when the mechanism of brain injury was INFARCTION; and, more so six years after the event.


So


IS THIS REALLY TERRI'S CT?

IF it is then her atrophy is SEVERE, BUT not as bad as has been implicated by the press and the courts

IF it is then why did she have hydrocephalus six years after her non traumatic infarction

IF it is... why was she shunted...AND IS SHE STILL shunted? IF not, why was the shunt removed?

IF it is, why does the Second District Court NOT mention Terri's hydrocephalus in it's dissertation on Terri's woeful cerebral condition??

IF Terri DOES have hydrocephalus from ventricle blockage, was there trauma that caused bleeding that lead to hydrocephalus on the basis of a blood clot obstructing ventricular outflow?

IF so, what was that trauma?

IF Terri had hydrocephalus in 1996, she may still have hydrocephalus now; some patients with hydrocephalus respond to shunting with increased mental functioning!


IF THIS IS NOT TERRI'S CT THEN WHERE IS HER CT?

Based on this evidence Terri Schiavo should have a CT scan repeated. She should also have an MRI and a PET scan to gage the severity of her brain dysfunction.
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Old 03-29-2005, 09:16 PM   #486
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Too bad Michael Schiavo will only let these questions be answered by means of autopsy.....
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Old 03-30-2005, 04:58 AM   #487
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Too bad Michael Schiavo will only let these questions be answered by means of autopsy.....

why does everyone continue to demonize Michael Schiavo? (and it seems to be the family most against the autopsy, because they probably know that it will reveal a brain without a cerebral cortex and show just how manipulative those videos are).

i'm also thinking that what this case comes down to is the right of a spouse to determine his or her incapacitated spouse's fate in the absence of a living will. civil marriage is indeed a unique and special legal bond. the social right only believes this when it suits them. if it can be used to marginalize and stigmatize gay couples, they are insistent. if it is an obstacle to their absolutist views on feeding tubes for human beings who have ceased to be able to feel, think or emote, then they discard it

heavens! what about the "sanctity of marriage"!?!?!!?!

with each passing month, the cynicism and power-lust of these people become clearer and clearer.

the case also highlights - in another wonderful irony - how religious right morality even trumps civil marriage. it is simply amazing to hear the advocates of the inviolability of the heterosexual civil marital bond deny Terri Schiavo's legal husband the right to decide his wife's fate, when she cannot decide it for herself. Again, the demands of the religious right pre-empt constitutionalism, federalism, and even the integrity of the family.

here's a principle: the government should stay out of living rooms, bedrooms and marital bonds.
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Old 03-30-2005, 08:20 AM   #488
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Careful how you paint the cynicism in the matter.

If Terri had killed someone in cold blood, she would have less sympathy on this board, but more people arguing that she should live.
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Old 03-30-2005, 08:26 AM   #489
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Originally posted by Irvine511





heavens! what about the "sanctity of marriage"!?!?!!?!

michael kinda forfieted that 10 yrs ago.

and nb is right.
susan smith has had more sympathy from most of the members here.

go figure

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Old 03-30-2005, 09:09 AM   #490
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i think everyone has sympathy for poor Terri ... being kept in limbo for 15 years must be awful, especially with parents who insist on dressing her up and making her their little plaything and politicizing what remains of her existence.

i feel very badly for Terri.

i also don't understand the contradictions between the bloodlust many feel for the death penalty, yet the need to call anything -- from Terri Schiavo to other human vegetables to a fertalized egg -- "human life" and insist on its equivalnce to conscious, cognizant, breathing human beings. we are not talking about the disabled or the handicapped here, we are talking about something completely different.

i'm wondering why soldiers in Iraq, or children in Darfur, don't get the shrill hysterics that a woman without a cerebral cortex gets.

as for marriage, michael is the legal guardian. there's no legal question here. none.

at least the Schindler's now know how many gay people feel -- except the positions are reversed. suddenly the willingness of the far right to use the full weight of government to impose their views comes to light.

now many people get a taste of how gays feel.
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Old 03-30-2005, 09:13 AM   #491
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

i'm wondering why soldiers in Iraq, or children in Darfur, don't get the shrill hysterics that a woman without a cerebral cortex gets.



excellent point, Irvine. i've been wondering the exact same thing.
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Old 03-30-2005, 09:13 AM   #492
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
If Terri had killed someone in cold blood, she would have less sympathy on this board, but more people arguing that she should live.

Terri is incapable of killing someone because she is no longer alive in any meaningful way.

my objections to the death penalty are purely practical; i'm agnostic as to the morality of a government killing someone, but i'm not agnostic to the fact that innocent people get killed on death row all the time.

this whole culture of life thing smacks of such utter bullshit, i can't stand it. bush himself, who said last week that "it is wise to always err on the side of life," didn't seem so concerned when he signed countless death warrants as governor of Texas, with the most cursory of legal reviews. remember his mocking of Carla Fay Tucker (i think) in a 1999 interview? the woman who had become a committed Christian in jail?

Bush also signed a Texas law that gave surviving next of kin complete discretion to remove life-support from a terminally ill patient in the absence of a living will. last week, an eight-year-old boy died after his tube was removed in Texas because his parents could no longer afford treatment, but the religious right seemed uninterested.

Bush has presided over the criminal homicides of 26 inmates in U.S. military care, after removing by executive memo the usual bans on cruel and inhumane treatment of prisoners.

culture of life?

Terri Schiavo has no meaningful life, and her husband and witnesses have said that she would never want to be kept alive in such a fashion.

that's really it. we have courts for a reason, not least being the prevention of a Christian Theocracy.
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Old 03-30-2005, 09:30 AM   #493
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Cursory review of death penalty cases? Please. I can tell that is not the result of your own investigation. Death Penalty cases get the highest level of due process - meeting Constitutional requirements - even in Texas.

If you are going to point to other cases, note the "lack of interest" by all parties.

Terri's life is meaningful to her parents.
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Old 03-30-2005, 09:32 AM   #494
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Cursory review of death penalty cases? Please. I can tell that is not the result of your own investigation. Death Penalty cases get the highest level of due process - meeting Constitutional requirements - even in Texas.

If you are going to point to other cases, note the "lack of interest" by all parties.

Terri's life is meaningful to her parents.

bush performed only a cursory legal review of death penalty cases.

terri's life should be meaningful to Terri. it is her life, not her parent's life. children do not exist for the amusement of their parents.
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Old 03-30-2005, 09:36 AM   #495
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i think everyone has sympathy for poor Terri ... being kept in limbo for 15 years must be awful, especially with parents who insist on dressing her up and making her their little plaything and politicizing what remains of her existence.

i feel very badly for Terri.

i also don't understand the contradictions between the bloodlust many feel for the death penalty,

.
no contradiction.
its having an appreciation for

INNOCENT life over somebody found guilty. Once one is found guilty there is no bloodlust only from a few bent ppl.

As far as innocent kids dying in a war zone we feel sorrow for them as we do Terri. We look to their govt as a responisble guardians who coulda avoided their slaughter but chose not to-similar to the way Michael S is doing to his spouse who he chose to:

Love Honor and Cherish in Sickness and Health.
I don't think their was a clause in their wedding vows.

I find it amusing how liberals have a very caviler respect more the word innocent. They disregard it when ever it's inconvient.

Lastly if Terri were infected w HIV I wonder if the view would be different from the left

Peace,
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