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Old 03-27-2005, 12:31 AM   #451
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Old 03-27-2005, 01:23 AM   #452
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Krauthammer is a paraplegic.
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Old 03-27-2005, 06:10 AM   #453
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Krauthammer is a paraplegic.
He is, and he's also a reliable mouthpiece for the GOP party line. That's generally why I do not trust him to be objective; but whatever. That's his right as an editorialist. I just keep that bias in mind.

I think it is wrong to compare people with all disabilities to Terri Shiavo. We're not talking about unplugging someone who can respond, even if that response was limited to blinking "yes" or "no." Terri cannot do even that. We're not talking about unplugging someone who even has a brain. Her cerebral cortex died and was liquified.

What people don't realize is that thousands of babies each year are born exactly in Terri Shiavo's condition: with only a brain stem. There's actually an ethical debate going on as to whether we should hook a feeding tube into them, let them grow, and then harvest their organs for transplant. As it stands, they are left to die and die within a week.

No one ever said that nature or reality was fair. We just have to, once and for all, face reality. Terri Shiavo is no longer there; we're just keeping her body alive. We could do the same thing to those thousands of babies born each year with brain stems, but should we? After all, we can't ask those babies if they want to be alive or not either, but the fact remains that if you don't have a cerebral cortex, no matter who you are, you are physically incapable of thinking or doing anything beyond involuntary reflexes. That alone is why Terri Shiavo should be left to pass away. It's unfortunate. It is not ideal. But we do not set the laws of nature, and nature does not conform to human definitions of morality, contrary to what any Christian institution says otherwise.

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Old 03-27-2005, 06:19 AM   #454
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That is why this is a terrible case. The general rule of spousal supremacy leads you here to a thoroughly repulsive conclusion.
Funny. I thought the "cult of marriage" meant that anything standing in the way of spousal rights was wrong. After all, look at all these asinine "Defense of Marriage" acts?

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Old 03-27-2005, 07:27 AM   #455
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It seems like this is it for the Schiavo case. They're not going to put the feeding tube back in. It's just a matter of days, then she'll rest in peace. Since Terri herself didn't do anything wrong, she won't have to pay for the sin; someone else is committing that. But the controversy will never go away.
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Old 03-27-2005, 08:14 AM   #456
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It seems like this is it for the Schiavo case. They're not going to put the feeding tube back in. It's just a matter of days, then she'll rest in peace. Since Terri herself didn't do anything wrong, she won't have to pay for the sin; someone else is committing that. But the controversy will never go away.



my mouth says exactly these words.................................
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Old 03-27-2005, 02:16 PM   #457
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Originally posted by melon


He is, and he's also a reliable mouthpiece for the GOP party line. That's generally why I do not trust him to be objective; but whatever. That's his right as an editorialist. I just keep that bias in mind.

I think it is wrong to compare people with all disabilities to Terri Shiavo. We're not talking about unplugging someone who can respond, even if that response was limited to blinking "yes" or "no." Terri cannot do even that. We're not talking about unplugging someone who even has a brain. Her cerebral cortex died and was liquified.

What people don't realize is that thousands of babies each year are born exactly in Terri Shiavo's condition: with only a brain stem. There's actually an ethical debate going on as to whether we should hook a feeding tube into them, let them grow, and then harvest their organs for transplant. As it stands, they are left to die and die within a week.

No one ever said that nature or reality was fair. We just have to, once and for all, face reality. Terri Shiavo is no longer there; we're just keeping her body alive. We could do the same thing to those thousands of babies born each year with brain stems, but should we? After all, we can't ask those babies if they want to be alive or not either, but the fact remains that if you don't have a cerebral cortex, no matter who you are, you are physically incapable of thinking or doing anything beyond involuntary reflexes. That alone is why Terri Shiavo should be left to pass away. It's unfortunate. It is not ideal. But we do not set the laws of nature, and nature does not conform to human definitions of morality, contrary to what any Christian institution says otherwise.

Melon
This post should be printed and distributed to every person standing outside that hospice right now.
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Old 03-27-2005, 06:36 PM   #458
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So many different ways to look at this.

So many different opinions on what is right and wrong.

I don't know Michael Schiavo personally, and I've never met Terri Schiavo's parents. I don't know what kind of people they are (although others seem to think they do), but I know that they disagree on what should be done regarding Terri.

I know that Michael Schiavo is the spouse, and as her spouse, is her legal guardian. As a result, the decision is his alone to make, and it should be something that stays private between him and his wife. It is not our right to judge.
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Old 03-27-2005, 06:36 PM   #459
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its not accurate.

db9
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Old 03-27-2005, 07:35 PM   #460
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Originally posted by verte76
It seems like this is it for the Schiavo case. They're not going to put the feeding tube back in. It's just a matter of days, then she'll rest in peace. Since Terri herself didn't do anything wrong, she won't have to pay for the sin; someone else is committing that. But the controversy will never go away.
Only if you believe a sin occurred. I don't.


Of course I don't believe in god either....
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Old 03-27-2005, 10:13 PM   #461
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its not accurate.

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what isn't?
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Old 03-27-2005, 10:58 PM   #462
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Old 03-28-2005, 08:21 AM   #463
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You're comparing apples and oranges.
Is it? It's convenient to live in the gray area because you can always claim the situations are different.

I find it interesting that the doctors are giving Terri morphine for the pain she is supposedly not feeling. My guess is the parents see something in Terri's eyes that the rest of us will never know.
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Old 03-28-2005, 08:23 AM   #464
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My guess is the parents see something in Terri's eyes that the rest of us will never know.
I think that's something we can all agree on.

My prayers are with her and her whole family--including her husband. I suspect we will never know what is or was going on in her head. All we can hope for now is peace for everyone involved.
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Old 03-28-2005, 10:09 AM   #465
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I find it interesting that the doctors are giving Terri morphine for the pain she is supposedly not feeling. My guess is the parents see something in Terri's eyes that the rest of us will never know.

one never wants to disregard the pain of the relatives of the deceased (or about to be), but i'm starting to lose a little sympathy for the Schindlers. my guess is all they're seeing in Terri's eyes is themselves, and their inability or downright refusal to cope with the virtual death of their daughter. it seems to me that this isn't about Terri at all, but about parents who can't let go and accept reality -- i'm sorry, but all that video footage they've complied together makes me angry, they're obviously desperate and they're completely reading into things that aren't there, and then they've culled a few minutes from years of her being comatose and edited it together into a terribly manipulative clip reel.

in my opinion, any parent who keeps a child in such a state for 15 years, and then dress her up and put make up on her and wave balloons in her face and claim she's somehow responding, doesn't have the child's best interests in mind. it strikes me as very self-centered, as if she's some sort of plaything.

while this does sound a little harsh, i fully admit that, i'm beginnign to think the circumstances and their grandstanding and histrionics are starting to deserve a little more harsh scrutiny than they've been getting. like i've said, i can't imagine their pain, and i've known parents who have lost children and it is unspeakably horrible ... but it's been 15 years.
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