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Old 03-25-2005, 12:43 PM   #376
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different thread, bush hater.

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yes, anyone with a disagreement with Bush is a "hater."
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Old 03-25-2005, 12:45 PM   #377
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the measure of a society is how we take care of our most vulenearble members.

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Old 03-25-2005, 12:46 PM   #378
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on innocent life i err on the side of caution.

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Old 03-25-2005, 12:48 PM   #379
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Originally posted by diamond
the measure of a society is how we take care of our most vulenearble members.

db9

on this we fully agree.

(so why scale back medicade? why cut taxes?)

Terri, however, has been virtually dead for 15 years. i don't think keeping her in this state is making anyone happy other than her parents who can't seem to let her go.
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Old 03-25-2005, 12:49 PM   #380
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The one thing I hear over and over again with this is the "barbarity" of her death by starvation and her appearance due to the starvation.
I think this is misleading to the general public who may not have witnessed a prolonged death. Again, my views are based on the information I have read from Neurologists, the doctors who myself and my family spoke with regarding my grandmother and the actual witnessing of my grandmother's death. First, no death is pretty or pleasant. It is not like the movies where the person closes their eyes and takes one last breath. Watching my grandmother, the same signs, the sunken eyes, cracked lips, shallower breathing were all there. We saw each step as her body slowly shut down (she had a very strong heart so her heart and lungs kept working a little longer than usual). It was very difficult and painful for us to see this happening. BUT, I can say with certainty that she did not suffer.
I feel so very sorry for the parents who are not ready for this and will have a difficult time letting her go. I also feel sorry for her husband, because no matter how ready you think you are to let a person die, when the end finally comes it still hits you like a ton of bricks. All of them will have a lot of grieving to do.
My opinion is that the parents have held on so tight for so long, hoping against all odds that she would recover, that they don't know how to let go. I hope they find some peace.
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Old 03-25-2005, 12:50 PM   #381
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instead of arguing can we just say a prayer or something like that for the grief that all involved parties have had to go through or will go through?
I love your sense of spiritual peace, to be honest. To say the least, this case should remind all of us how fragile life is, and how often emotions get caught in the midst of it all.

I'm sure that Michael Schiavo is sincere about what he is bargaining for. I'm sure Terri's family feels the same way. When the Supreme Court refuses to reinsert the feeding tube, the case is closed, for better or worse.

There is a deep sense of grief, I feel, that lies on both sides. Michael probably feels as though he's had a dead ex-wife for 15 years, and it has made his life rather difficult in some areas. The family is having a very hard time coping with losing their daughter, whom they see as a living, breathing person.

I would like the gap to bridge a little more between right and left, spiritual and secular, right to lifers and right to die types; but as a result of obscure situations such as this one, I simply do not know how it will be done.

To bring a little more of a spiritual tone to the table, I trust that God will rightfully judge those who have been involved, whether it be Michael, Terri, or the Schindler family.
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Old 03-25-2005, 12:51 PM   #382
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on innocent life i err on the side of caution.

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it's been 15 years.
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Old 03-25-2005, 12:54 PM   #383
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To bring a little more of a spiritual tone to the table, I trust that God will rightfully judge those who have been involved, whether it be Michael, Terri, or the Schindler family.

in this situation, if we can pull away from the courts and congress and fanatical pro-lifers and grandstanding politicians, i think we can see two different parties fighting for their own view of a horrible situation.

if there is a god, and if that god "judges," i think he'll understand the positions both sides are taking and that they, in their heart of hearts, are doing what they believe to be the right thing.

however, in regards to the legal and medical side of this, there's really little question that the Schindler's are in the wrong.
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Old 03-25-2005, 01:10 PM   #384
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Originally posted by Irvine511


however, in regards to the legal and medical side of this, there's really little question that the Schindler's are in the wrong.
I can think of many Interference'rs who, in a different situation, would say that just because a certain law is on the books doesn't make it right....
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Old 03-25-2005, 01:24 PM   #385
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Originally posted by Lyras
The one thing I hear over and over again with this is the "barbarity" of her death by starvation and her appearance due to the starvation.
I think this is misleading to the general public who may not have witnessed a prolonged death. Again, my views are based on the information I have read from Neurologists, the doctors who myself and my family spoke with regarding my grandmother and the actual witnessing of my grandmother's death. First, no death is pretty or pleasant. It is not like the movies where the person closes their eyes and takes one last breath. Watching my grandmother, the same signs, the sunken eyes, cracked lips, shallower breathing were all there. We saw each step as her body slowly shut down (she had a very strong heart so her heart and lungs kept working a little longer than usual). It was very difficult and painful for us to see this happening. BUT, I can say with certainty that she did not suffer.
I feel so very sorry for the parents who are not ready for this and will have a difficult time letting her go. I also feel sorry for her husband, because no matter how ready you think you are to let a person die, when the end finally comes it still hits you like a ton of bricks. All of them will have a lot of grieving to do.
My opinion is that the parents have held on so tight for so long, hoping against all odds that she would recover, that they don't know how to let go. I hope they find some peace.

It's well documented medical fact that for many with terminal illnesses, eating actually ADDS to pain as the organs have to work that much harder.
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Old 03-25-2005, 01:27 PM   #386
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Originally posted by diamond

different thread, bush hater.

db9
My like or dislike of Bush isn't relevant to the fact that on the one hand he pontificates on the sanctity of life, and on the other he starts wars base don lives killign hundreds oif thousands, supports the NRA, snr hundreds to Death row, and wants to cut back medicaid.

All of those are facts. let's not let fact enter into emotional partisan rhetoric though eh ?
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Old 03-25-2005, 01:29 PM   #387
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Originally posted by jay canseco


What that seems to mean is that you err on the side of your religious beliefs. But you can't impose your religious beliefs on other people in the U.S.. It would take away their freedom of choice.

Terri chose to marry Michael. Michael, by law, has legal authority. That should have been the end of the story 15 years ago.
Why do you assume I have religious beliefs? That argument's a cop out.

I believe that human value lies in it's very essence.

Others on the opposing side of this issue believe the value of human life is determined by one's ability or potential or "viability".

We disagree. This is not a religious argument even though you're making it one.

Freedom of choice? Is that kind of like the right to privacy?

The word "choice" is so vague. Freedom of choice means absolutely nothing and has no basis in law.

This case raises many difficult questions and as I said before we need to answer them or the "other side" answers them for us.
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Old 03-25-2005, 01:32 PM   #388
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All of those are facts. let's not let fact enter into emotional partisan rhetoric though eh ?
emotional partisan rhetoric like this?

"Bush, far from a real man"
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Old 03-25-2005, 01:33 PM   #389
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Originally posted by drhark
Why do you assume I have religious beliefs? That argument's a cop out.

I believe that human value lies in it's very essence.

Others on the opposing side of this issue believe the value of human life is determined by one's ability or potential or "viability".

We disagree. This is not a religious argument even though you're making it one.

Freedom of choice? Is that kind of like the right to privacy?

The word "choice" is so vague. Freedom of choice means absolutely nothing and has no basis in law.

This case raises many difficult questions and as I said before we need to answer them or the "other side" answers them for us.
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Old 03-25-2005, 01:35 PM   #390
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Originally posted by Irvine511



on this we fully agree.

(so why scale back medicade? why cut taxes?)

Terri, however, has been virtually dead for 15 years. i don't think keeping her in this state is making anyone happy other than her parents who can't seem to let her go.
and I don't think keeping her in the state you (and most others)believe she's in makes a damn bit of difference to her either. So what harm will keeping her alive do to her?
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