MERGED: Terri Schiavo

[Lisa71]

This story has been big in Tampa for years. The thing is the media is choosing what to report or what not to report based on what bias they'd like to have.

The one thing that isn't getting said enough (it's been around in the local media for years) is that 5 doctors went in to exam her over a matter of weeks. 2 doctor's from the husband's side, 2 from the parents and 1 one from the courts. ALL 5 concluded the same thing. She won't come out of this. The back part of her brain which is used for movement, reason, feelings, emotions, thinking in general is melted. It is not functioning. Her parent's conceded this point in court over 5 years ago.

The real issue comes down to whether people believe she told her husband that she wanted to be kept alive or not. He, her best friend and a few of her in laws claim they heard her express her feelings about not being kept alive by any means if she was in a position such as this.

Either her parents were told something different or they think those people are lying.

I have my own personal feelings about this but I thought I'd just share some of the facts that have been around in the local media and maybe not as much in the national media.

 

[DaveC]

If an autistic boy is capable of no more than these utterances, is it fair for the parents to withhold food?

Of course not.

But autistic boys don't get diagnosed as being in a persistent vegetative state. They have something called a brain that they can use. They are conscious.

Terri Schiavo is not. Moans are reflexive. Put a bullet into her leg, and she probably wouldn't even react. She doesn't have the cortex in her brain to be able to process pain, and she certainly doesn't have the capacity to be aware enough to consciously attempt to say "I want to live" (couldn't "AAAA WAAA" be anything from "A wasp!" to "I wanked"? Jeez...it could be literally anything). It's not a matter of it being possible, the brain firing on adrenaline or something similar. The brain is simply not there.

She has no possible way to express anything. Nothing. Physical impossiblility.

 

[anitram]

If an autistic boy is capable of no more than these utterances, is it fair for the parents to withhold food?

When that boy has a flat EEG line, and his cerebral cortex has been replaced with spinal fluid and is unable to intake food and water, then yes.

Until then, totally baseless comparison.

 

[deep]

If an autistic boy is capable of no more than these utterances, is it fair for the parents to withhold food?

Is this a real question?

This woman's life ended in 91.
Her brain is damaged beyond repair.

We will all have an end of life.


There is no coming back, for her.
It is not a coma.


Because the food tube can delay the completion of the dying process, is it right?

Why not hook up an artificial heart, dialysis machine, a ventilating machine right now?
and keep an empty body living 20 more years? Is that the goal?

 

[MrBrau1]

Now the FBI has arrested a man in NC who put a $250K bounty on Mike Schiavo, and $50K on the judge.

 

[BVS]

Now the FBI has arrested a man in NC who put a $250K bounty on Mike Schiavo, and $50K on the judge.

This and bomb threats...

I'm glad these "life" supporters have so much respect for life.

 

[MrBrau1]

This and bomb threats...

I'm glad these "life" supporters have so much respect for life.

Jesus would be proud.

 

[nbcrusader]

Is this a real question?

Yes.

When crass comments are made in support of her termination based on the sounds she is able to produce, then it is completely fair to analyze the comment as a principle for such decisions.

 

[deep]

Man arrested in N.C. on charges of threatening Michael Schiavo
3/25/2005 7:23 PM
By: Associated Press

(ASHEVILLE) - A man is in jail in Asheville Friday night on charges he threatened the husband of the brain-damaged Florida woman at the center of the right-to-die case gripping the country.

Richard Alan Meywes was arrested in Fairview, North Carolina for an alleged connection to an email placing a $250,000 bounty on the head of Michael Schiavo.

The email also offered a $50,000 bounty for the elimination of the judge who denied a request to intervene in the Schiavo case.

It's been a week that Michael Schiavo's wife, Terry, has been disconnected from a feeding tube. She's been kept alive but in a persistent vegetative state for 15 years as her husband and her parents fought in court about whether she should be allowed to die.

Meywes faces federal charges of murder for hire and transmission of interstate threatening communications.

An FBI spokesman in Charlotte didn't immediately return calls seeking details of the arrest.

Corporal Todd Ernst of the Buncomb County Sheriffs Office said Meywes has no prior record in Buncomb County. Ernst said Meywes is being held in the Buncombe County Detention Center he appears before a federal magistrate, probably on Monday.

link here

 

[blueyedpoet]

what the hell is wrong with these people..."damn him, he wants to take away her 'life.' We'll kill him, that'll show em."
the lack of intelligence is staggering

 

[DaveC]

When crass comments are made in support of her termination based on the sounds she is able to produce, then it is completely fair to analyze the comment as a principle for such decisions.

That's ridiculous. When was a "crass comment" ever made? She made two moans and her parents are yanking complete phrases out of their asses.

Autism has absolutely no comparison to PVS, as someone stated above. You actually have a brain if you're autistic. Terri has no brain. You're comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

what the hell is wrong with these people..."damn him, he wants to take away her 'life.' We'll kill him, that'll show em."
the lack of intelligence is staggering

They aren't exactly typical. I feel for the family, but I don't want this to become a standard stereotype for me.

 

[DaveC]

The latest from CNN:

"On Thursday, police arrested an Illinois man they said robbed a gun store in Seminole, Florida, as part of an attempt to "rescue Terri Schiavo."

Michael W. Mitchell, 20, faces charges of attempted armed robbery, aggravated assault and criminal mischief, said Marianne Pasha, spokeswoman for the Pinellas County Sheriff's Office."

Not to sure exactly what he expected to do with her once he got her out of the hospice...it's not like he could ram a loaf of bread down her throat...

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

...wow...that's a mature way to handle this situation.

Some people are incredibly stupid.

Angela

 

[Irvine511]

my reaction was one of a complete lack of surprise.

the mainstream is loosing interest in this story, so the extremists are getting nervous and looking for attention.

 

[babyman]

there's not so really more to discuss, terri is out

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

the mainstream is loosing interest in this story, so the extremists are getting nervous and looking for attention.

And again I say, some people are incredibly stupid.

Angela

 

[Golightly Grrl]

All I know is that this tragic case is making me think of getting a living will. I don't want ever want to be in the same state as Terry Shiavo. NEVER!

 

[deep]

 

[verte76]

This sure is bringing out some off-the-wall behavior. Committing robbery to save Terri? What are these people thinking?

 

[tiny dancer]

All I know is that this tragic case is making me think of getting a living will. I don't want ever want to be in the same state as Terry Shiavo. NEVER!

I am definitely going to get a living will also.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

In regards to the picture deep posted, tonight on MSNBC they had a news break in which they were talking more about this case, and there was someone behind the person talking that was holding up a sign that said, "Pres. Bush Save Terri". Save her from what, exactly? A death she'd eventually experience anyway?

Angela

 

[BVS]

In regards to the picture deep posted, tonight on MSNBC they had a news break in which they were talking more about this case, and there was someone behind the person talking that was holding up a sign that said, "Pres. Bush Save Terri". Save her from what, exactly? A death she'd eventually experience anyway?

Angela

Don't you know, Bush is a saviour, he can save everyone...

 

[jay canseco]

In any case, parents should never have to bury their children. I feel terrible for them.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I do, too-like I said, I don't doubt this is a rough time for them. But I just personally think it's better to let her go.

Don't you know, Bush is a saviour, he can save everyone...

Oh, yeah....

Angela

 

[jay canseco]

Yes. I wonder though if it is within human abilities to use logic and reason in their situation? I guess for them, that quesion has been answered.

 

[indra]

Yes. I wonder though if it is within human abilities to use logic and reason in their situation? I guess for them, that quesion has been answered.

The thing is that this situation (the medical situation, not the circus) happens with regularity, and most people do handle it with logic and reason. That doesn't mean they are cold, heartless people, and they love their relatives every bit as much as the Schindlers love Terri.

So yes, it is possible to use logic and reason in this type of situation. But I'm not sure it is possible for the Schindlers, at least not now.

 

[drhark]

I like this guy and I think he's got a fair take on the whole situation. My last post on this thread:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Between Travesty and Tragedy

By Charles Krauthammer
Wednesday, March 23, 2005; Page A15

If I were in Terri Schiavo's condition, I would not want a feeding tube. But Schiavo does not have the means to make her intentions known. We do not know what she would have wanted. We have nothing to go on. No living will, no advance directives, no durable power of attorney.

What do you do when you have nothing to go on? You try to intuit her will, using loved ones as surrogates.

In this case, the loved ones disagree. The husband wants Terri to die; the parents do not. The Florida court gave the surrogacy to her husband, under the generally useful rule that your spouse is the most reliable diviner of your wishes: You pick your spouse and not your parents, and you have spent most of your recent years with your spouse and not your parents.

The problem is that although your spouse probably knows you best, there is no guarantee that he will not confuse his wishes with yours. Terri's spouse presents complications. He has a girlfriend, and has two kids with her. He clearly wants to marry again. And a living Terri stands in the way.

Now, all of this may be irrelevant in his mind. He may actually be acting entirely based on his understanding of his wife's wishes. And as she left nothing behind, the courts have been forced to conclude, on the basis of his testimony, that she would prefer to be dead.

That is why this is a terrible case. The general rule of spousal supremacy leads you here to a thoroughly repulsive conclusion. Repulsive because in a case where there is no consensus among the loved ones, one's natural human sympathies suggest giving custody to the party committed to her staying alive and pledging to carry the burden themselves.

Let's be clear about her condition. She is not dead. If she were brain-dead, we would be talking about harvesting her organs. She is a living, breathing human being. Some people have called her a vegetable. Apart from the term being disgusting, how do they know? How can we be sure of the complete absence of any consciousness, any awareness, any anything "inside" this person?

The crucial issue in deciding whether one would want to intervene to keep her alive is whether there is, as one bioethicist put it to me, "anyone home." Her parents, who see her often, believe that there is. The husband maintains that there is no one home. (But then again he has another home, making his judgment somewhat suspect.) The husband has not allowed a lot of medical testing in the past few years. I have tried to find out what her neurological condition actually is. But the evidence is sketchy, old and conflicting. The Florida court found that most of her cerebral cortex is gone. But "most" does not mean all. There may be some cortex functioning. The severely retarded or brain-damaged can have some consciousness. And we do not go around euthanizing the minimally conscious in the back wards of mental hospitals on the grounds that their lives are not worth living.

Given our lack of certainty, given that there are loved ones prepared to keep her alive and care for her, how can you allow the husband to end her life on his say-so? Because following the sensible rules of Florida custody laws, conducted with due diligence and great care over many years in this case, this is where the law led.

For Congress and the president to then step in and try to override that by shifting the venue to a federal court was a legal travesty, a flagrant violation of federalism and the separation of powers. The federal judge who refused to reverse the Florida court was certainly true to the law. But the law, while scrupulous, has been merciless, and its conclusion very troubling morally. We ended up having to choose between a legal travesty on the one hand and human tragedy on the other.

There is no good outcome to this case. Except perhaps if Florida and the other states were to amend their laws and resolve conflicts among loved ones differently -- by granting authority not necessarily to the spouse but to whatever first-degree relative (even if in the minority) chooses life and is committed to support it. Call it Terri's law. It would help prevent our having to choose in the future between travesty and tragedy.

letters@charleskrauthammer.com

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Another case like this will pop up soon and we'll have another go.

 

[drhark]

P.S. he's quadraplegic

 

[deep]

P.S. he's quadraplegic

are you sure?