BVS
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drhark said:
not the subject...
MERGED: Terri Schiavo
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not the subject...
Irvine511
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drhark said:
i'll say it again.
they are not starving someone to death in the way that we understand starving to death.
this happens ALL the time with terminally ill patients, those in comas, and people with similar conditions to Terri.
unless we pass euthanasia laws similar to those in the Netherlands where a doctor is allowed to administer a tranqulizer that will stop the lungs, this is one of the most humane ways to allow a life to end. she will not feel pain, both becuase her brain is liquid and because, as is the case with, say, a cancer patient, their pain will be carefully monitored by a doctor and morphine will be administered. the body shuts down without food and water, especially a drastically weakened body, and it is a very peaceful way to go.
i believe in the frist few pages of this thread, someone mentioned that a relative of theirs chose this method instead of face another round of painful chemo.
there is nothing unusual about this, let alone cruel.
please, don't let the highly emotional language of the far right fool you, though i see you've adopted their sanctimonious tone.
"i side with life!"
yes, of course we all like life, but that's an empty statement.
it's like when i go to left-wing protests and they hold up equally brain-dead signs that say things like, "The World Needs Justice, Not War." really!?!?!?! justice is better than war!?!?!? oh, now i get it!!!!
(that's not directed at you, just in general)
BVS
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drhark said:
You didn't question though, you said
that must make you some kind of expert. There are doctors who've given there expertice and a judge who knows the law much better than you yet you call the evidence flimsy and the judgement bad. Sounds like bias rather than anything else.
nathan1977
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Irvine511 said:
Must be the only time I've ever heard the phrase "let's be more like the Netherlands"....
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
nathan1977 said:
well, i didn't say we should do it, i just tried to represent the present situation.
but i do think we should be more like the netherlands. wonderful country. i'm all for the decriminalization of soft drugs and prostitution, and i love their ethic of social tolerance.
so, let's be more like the Netherlands.
jay canseco
War Child
- Joined
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drhark said:
What that seems to mean is that you err on the side of your religious beliefs. But you can't impose your religious beliefs on other people in the U.S.. It would take away their freedom of choice.
Terri chose to marry Michael. Michael, by law, has legal authority. That should have been the end of the story 15 years ago.
drhark said:
All Congress could do was let the federal courts to decide the case. It was not within their jurisdiction to order the feeding tube put in. They *wanted* the federal courts to put it in, but they could not require it.
Just because the federal courts did not give Congress what they wanted did not mean the judiciary was out-of-bounds. Again, the judiciary is not a rubber stamp for the conservative agenda.
Melon
diamond
ONE love, blood, life
Her husband used her for the lawsuit money then has been praying for her to die ever since he found a new gf.
Terri is not a vegtable.
She has cognitive skills.
She laughs
She swallows
She remembers.
Her estranged husband will have a lot to answer for in the next life.
He is assisting in her murder.
He was never a husband at all much less a human being.
db9
Terri is not a vegtable.
She has cognitive skills.
She laughs
She swallows
She remembers.
Her estranged husband will have a lot to answer for in the next life.
He is assisting in her murder.
He was never a husband at all much less a human being.
db9
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
diamond said:
really?
when did you examine her? where did you get your medical degree?
diamond
ONE love, blood, life
Irvine511 said:
Unless you're living under a rock or or a deathmute maybe you havn't been listening to Terri's parents, siblings and various Dr's who have examined her and/or spent time with her, unliked her estranged husband.
You have however seemed to grasp onto the misinformation that has beed spued thru out main stream media.
If Micheal Schiiavo were a real man he would deliver the care and guardianship of Terri to Mr and Mrs Schlinder Terri's parents- people who really love her.
db9
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diamond
ONE love, blood, life
different thread, bush hater.cardosino said:
db9
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
diamond said:
good lord.
you are watching selected segments of videotapes thave have been culled over years and years and sewn together into a propaganda video. THAT is the misinformation. the woman has spinal fluid where once a brain was. no one argues that.
there's no organized propaganda campaign behind Michael Schiavo, as opposed to the Schindler's who've amassed the nation's pro-life warriors and even venomous politicans like Tom Delay.
you have absolutely NO basis for your "diagnosis" of Terri's condition beyond what they've told you, and what they've told you is in their bests interests.
besides, my father is a doctor, and he disagrees with each and everyone one of your characterizations of her condition.
though Jonathan Edwards, of "Crossing Over" fame, does agree with you and told us so on "Fox and Friends."
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
diamond said:
yes, anyone with a disagreement with Bush is a "hater."
diamond
ONE love, blood, life
the measure of a society is how we take care of our most vulenearble members.
db9
db9
diamond
ONE love, blood, life
on innocent life i err on the side of caution.
db9
db9
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
diamond said:
on this we fully agree.
(so why scale back medicade? why cut taxes?)
Terri, however, has been virtually dead for 15 years. i don't think keeping her in this state is making anyone happy other than her parents who can't seem to let her go.
Lyras
Babyface
The one thing I hear over and over again with this is the "barbarity" of her death by starvation and her appearance due to the starvation.
I think this is misleading to the general public who may not have witnessed a prolonged death. Again, my views are based on the information I have read from Neurologists, the doctors who myself and my family spoke with regarding my grandmother and the actual witnessing of my grandmother's death. First, no death is pretty or pleasant. It is not like the movies where the person closes their eyes and takes one last breath. Watching my grandmother, the same signs, the sunken eyes, cracked lips, shallower breathing were all there. We saw each step as her body slowly shut down (she had a very strong heart so her heart and lungs kept working a little longer than usual). It was very difficult and painful for us to see this happening. BUT, I can say with certainty that she did not suffer.
I feel so very sorry for the parents who are not ready for this and will have a difficult time letting her go. I also feel sorry for her husband, because no matter how ready you think you are to let a person die, when the end finally comes it still hits you like a ton of bricks. All of them will have a lot of grieving to do.
My opinion is that the parents have held on so tight for so long, hoping against all odds that she would recover, that they don't know how to let go. I hope they find some peace.
I think this is misleading to the general public who may not have witnessed a prolonged death. Again, my views are based on the information I have read from Neurologists, the doctors who myself and my family spoke with regarding my grandmother and the actual witnessing of my grandmother's death. First, no death is pretty or pleasant. It is not like the movies where the person closes their eyes and takes one last breath. Watching my grandmother, the same signs, the sunken eyes, cracked lips, shallower breathing were all there. We saw each step as her body slowly shut down (she had a very strong heart so her heart and lungs kept working a little longer than usual). It was very difficult and painful for us to see this happening. BUT, I can say with certainty that she did not suffer.
I feel so very sorry for the parents who are not ready for this and will have a difficult time letting her go. I also feel sorry for her husband, because no matter how ready you think you are to let a person die, when the end finally comes it still hits you like a ton of bricks. All of them will have a lot of grieving to do.
My opinion is that the parents have held on so tight for so long, hoping against all odds that she would recover, that they don't know how to let go. I hope they find some peace.
Macfistowannabe
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
I love your sense of spiritual peace, to be honest. To say the least, this case should remind all of us how fragile life is, and how often emotions get caught in the midst of it all.blueyedpoet said:
I'm sure that Michael Schiavo is sincere about what he is bargaining for. I'm sure Terri's family feels the same way. When the Supreme Court refuses to reinsert the feeding tube, the case is closed, for better or worse.
There is a deep sense of grief, I feel, that lies on both sides. Michael probably feels as though he's had a dead ex-wife for 15 years, and it has made his life rather difficult in some areas. The family is having a very hard time coping with losing their daughter, whom they see as a living, breathing person.
I would like the gap to bridge a little more between right and left, spiritual and secular, right to lifers and right to die types; but as a result of obscure situations such as this one, I simply do not know how it will be done.
To bring a little more of a spiritual tone to the table, I trust that God will rightfully judge those who have been involved, whether it be Michael, Terri, or the Schindler family.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
diamond said:
it's been 15 years.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
Macfistowannabe said:
in this situation, if we can pull away from the courts and congress and fanatical pro-lifers and grandstanding politicians, i think we can see two different parties fighting for their own view of a horrible situation.
if there is a god, and if that god "judges," i think he'll understand the positions both sides are taking and that they, in their heart of hearts, are doing what they believe to be the right thing.
however, in regards to the legal and medical side of this, there's really little question that the Schindler's are in the wrong.
nathan1977
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Irvine511 said:
I can think of many Interference'rs who, in a different situation, would say that just because a certain law is on the books doesn't make it right....
diamond said:
My like or dislike of Bush isn't relevant to the fact that on the one hand he pontificates on the sanctity of life, and on the other he starts wars base don lives killign hundreds oif thousands, supports the NRA, snr hundreds to Death row, and wants to cut back medicaid.
All of those are facts. let's not let fact enter into emotional partisan rhetoric though eh ?
jay canseco said:
Why do you assume I have religious beliefs? That argument's a cop out.
I believe that human value lies in it's very essence.
Others on the opposing side of this issue believe the value of human life is determined by one's ability or potential or "viability".
We disagree. This is not a religious argument even though you're making it one.
Freedom of choice? Is that kind of like the right to privacy?
The word "choice" is so vague. Freedom of choice means absolutely nothing and has no basis in law.
This case raises many difficult questions and as I said before we need to answer them or the "other side" answers them for us.
Macfistowannabe
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
drhark said:
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