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Old 03-22-2005, 08:19 PM   #181
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I'd rather have had everyone let go 14 years ago when I truly died and taken my soul out of limbo. When she does finally meet her maker she's gonna wonder where the hell 15 years went. God's just going to have to tell her "some folks downstairs tried to play me and trapped your soul in the dark all these years."
Exactly. And as pointed out, she will not feel anything from the removal of her feeding tube, and while I personally agree that I would also want a quick end to my pain, I'd also say that dying after a few weeks without a feeding tube while not being able to feel any of it occur as it is is less cruel than leaving them in the state they've been in for 10 freakin' years-the girl's been essentially wasting away for the last 10 years as it is.

Also, indra, yeah, I definitely agree, writing it down is definitely important, as it would avoid all these kinds of problems ahead of time.

Angela
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Old 03-22-2005, 09:29 PM   #182
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Well, I can say it has really sparked extensive conversation in my family. I have 5 sisters and a brother and my parents are still alive. I discussed this again tonight with my Mother and even though she has expressed her wishes to myself and 2 of my other sisters, she want's to have it in writing.
I'm starting with the will I've had for sometime now (from the 90's) but am thinking of doing another one with different wording, just so there isn't any question about my wishes.
Mom want's me to bring it bye with form(s) for her and my Dad.
Even though they have will's it doesn't cover this specific issue.
This has now taken on a different perspective just due to the possibility of government interference - and because of the in fighting with Terri's spouse and her family..
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Old 03-22-2005, 10:50 PM   #183
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I haven't posted many times here (but am a long-time lurker) but this case had a personal impact on me and the discussion has been interesting and heartfelt.
Any way you look at it, this is a heartbreaking case for all involved. The toughest decision anyone has to make is to decide end of life issues and when to make that decision. We had to face that issue when my grandmother suffered a stroke several years ago. It paralyzed her left side and left her dependent on us for all of her care. At the beginning we did everything we could to get her better, even trying to get her to eat more (that was a big fight between her and us). We didn't know at the time that the stroke had also paralyzed part of her stomach making it very difficult for her to eat and process the food. After many visitis to the specialists, the problem was diagnosed.
Fortunately, she had the capability to decide on her own whether she wanted increased care (in this case a feeding tube). After discussing it with the doctor, who was very clear about her prognosis and very concerned about her feelings, she decided, with our support, that she did not want the feeding tube, even if it would prolong her life for a little while. For her it was her it was prolonging the inevitable and her pain.
We took her home and cared for her during the end of her days. She was not in pain. As others have said, the withdrawal of food and fluids was a very gentle process of dying for her. The pain medication she had was for the other effects of the stroke. Honestly, at the very end when she had gone into a coma, we still gave her pain medication, even though she very likely did not feel anything at that time. I have to say that the Hospice staff we worked with were wonderful in explaining the process of dying and telling us it was okay to give her the medication because it helped us deal with her impending death more than her.
Going through that process was extremely painful. Watching someone you love die is extremely painful and my heart breaks for her parents. But I also wonder, they have been watching this slow process for the last 15 years and maybe it is time that she is let go. It is easy to say what we would do, it is much harder to do it. I know from experience how hard it is to let go and even at the end, even knowing that it was not a life my grandmother wanted, that last goodbye was devastating. But I also don't regret what we did and would do it again and feel in my heart that the best decision was made for all of us. I know this doesn't shed any more light on the subject but I also wanted to let people know who were worried about suffering from the withdrawal of the feeding tube, that from my own personal experience and from what I have heard from others going through the same thing, I do not believe that she will suffer.
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Old 03-22-2005, 11:49 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maeve
Hi McPhistowannabe,

Thank you so much for posting Heidi Law's statements. I literally have tears flowing out of my eyes, by just reading how Terri's husband would deny her any kind of treatment. How can he be so cruel...When, I was younger, I worked as a CNA and I know how important it is for stroke and paralized patients to have simple range of motion exercises. The muscles can shrink, causing great discomfort for the patient. I also know that when someone wants to die, they simply give up. I have seen this, first hand.

Also, when working with the Comotose and patients with Alzhemier disease, human touch and voice. Fresh air, soft music, photoghraphs, reading to the patient etc. greatly helps...You can not imagine how important this is.

I am sorry to disagree with some folks, but I believe that Terri is being treated worst than any prisoner of war. Due, to her husband. And I use that word very 'loosely' here.

And on a final note, to Heidi Law and all of the other nurses who cared for Terri. You are angels. God Bless you for loving this woman and fighting for what she wants. If...Terri really wanted to die. She would have died...well...long before now.
This is one of the greatest tragidies of this case...how the right wing will demonize any one who gets in their way...according to the court appointed independent guardian Mr. Shiavo was at his wife's side for the first four years and atteseted to the quaility care HE made sure she received...there came a point when he realized she was not going to get better, and as a young man still he moved on in his life...NOW he is the villian according to people like you...why is it hard for you to believe that Terri would not want to live like this...I know I wouldn't, in fact MOST people wouldn't...so stop trying to put what you would do on the rest of us...and that includes Terri...YOU didn't love her, YOU don't love her, YOU don't know her...her HUSBAND did...
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Old 03-23-2005, 12:21 AM   #185
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lyras
I haven't posted many times here (but am a long-time lurker) but this case had a personal impact on me and the discussion has been interesting and heartfelt.
Any way you look at it, this is a heartbreaking case for all involved. The toughest decision anyone has to make is to decide end of life issues and when to make that decision. We had to face that issue when my grandmother suffered a stroke several years ago. It paralyzed her left side and left her dependent on us for all of her care. At the beginning we did everything we could to get her better, even trying to get her to eat more (that was a big fight between her and us). We didn't know at the time that the stroke had also paralyzed part of her stomach making it very difficult for her to eat and process the food. After many visitis to the specialists, the problem was diagnosed.
Fortunately, she had the capability to decide on her own whether she wanted increased care (in this case a feeding tube). After discussing it with the doctor, who was very clear about her prognosis and very concerned about her feelings, she decided, with our support, that she did not want the feeding tube, even if it would prolong her life for a little while. For her it was her it was prolonging the inevitable and her pain.
We took her home and cared for her during the end of her days. She was not in pain. As others have said, the withdrawal of food and fluids was a very gentle process of dying for her. The pain medication she had was for the other effects of the stroke. Honestly, at the very end when she had gone into a coma, we still gave her pain medication, even though she very likely did not feel anything at that time. I have to say that the Hospice staff we worked with were wonderful in explaining the process of dying and telling us it was okay to give her the medication because it helped us deal with her impending death more than her.
Going through that process was extremely painful. Watching someone you love die is extremely painful and my heart breaks for her parents. But I also wonder, they have been watching this slow process for the last 15 years and maybe it is time that she is let go. It is easy to say what we would do, it is much harder to do it. I know from experience how hard it is to let go and even at the end, even knowing that it was not a life my grandmother wanted, that last goodbye was devastating. But I also don't regret what we did and would do it again and feel in my heart that the best decision was made for all of us. I know this doesn't shed any more light on the subject but I also wanted to let people know who were worried about suffering from the withdrawal of the feeding tube, that from my own personal experience and from what I have heard from others going through the same thing, I do not believe that she will suffer.
Thanks for the post. It does shed light on the issue...at least of what actually happens when a feeding tube is removed.
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Old 03-23-2005, 04:43 AM   #186
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A living will isn't legally binding in some states, I'm not sure about a health care proxy being binding everywhere but that can easily be checked into.

I personally don't think God will have any of those kind of questions for Terri, but that's just my take on it.

My Mother believes what is being done to her is murder-we were discussing it last night. My Mom is a Catholic in her sixties who was raised "old school" traditional- but she's not "right wing" or ultra conservative, she's moderate even more liberal leaning on many issues, and she's a Democrat.

Terri's family says there is no medical evidence she had an eating disorder-of course most people w/ that problem don't seek treatment on their own and so many families are in denial. They also say they suspect her husband had involvement somehow in her collapse and was abusive. That could be their anger talking, or it could be based upon information they have. I sure as hell wouldn't want someone like that making the decision for me.

Do we have proof of that? No Do we have proof of what he or her parents say are Terri's wishes? No. I have my gut feelings about her husband based upon his behavior, his demeanor, and what he says about her family.

I hate to agree w/ someone whose last name begins with B but I tend to agree that, w/ all the doubts and questions, we should err on the side of life. It's not the life that most people would want, but there are so many people being kept alive by far more extraordinary means. Are their lives less valid or less significant? I for one don't put myself in the position to determine any of that.

I have no certainty about any of my opinions regarding this, only doubts and questions. I know that Terri's family is visiting her and can't even give her a glass of water while seeing her dehydrating, and I can't fathom that. I don't know how they handle it.
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Old 03-23-2005, 05:13 AM   #187
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ABC news had a poll that said 87% of americans polled (1000 I think) said they would not want to be in the condition terri shiavo is on now.

82% of those 87% identified themselves as evangelical christians.

just thought i'd share

I guess as of 8:14am EST the 3 judge panel voted 2-1 not to insert the feeding tube so her parents now want to go to the supreme court.

Irvine-patricia heaton was on TV last night talking about it as well.
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Old 03-23-2005, 06:07 AM   #188
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I'd rather have had everyone let go 14 years ago when I truly died and taken my soul out of limbo. When she does finally meet her maker she's gonna wonder where the hell 15 years went. God's just going to have to tell her "some folks downstairs tried to play me and trapped your soul in the dark all these years."
This only reiterates my comment. If she has to be euthanized, why starve her to death?
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Old 03-23-2005, 06:10 AM   #189
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Originally posted by TiaraGurl
Irvine-patricia heaton was on TV last night talking about it as well.
Interesting. Heaton is (or at least was, maybe about a year ago) the celebrity spokesperson for Feminists for Life, a group with which I have some minor philosophical disagreements but I otherwise really like. I'm not saying this makes her "qualified," per se, but just wanted to mention that she does have some previous affiliation with "pro-life" issues.

www.feministsforlife.org
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Old 03-23-2005, 06:11 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally posted by TiaraGurl
ABC news had a poll that said 87% of americans polled (1000 I think) said they would not want to be in the condition terri shiavo is on now.

82% of those 87% identified themselves as evangelical christians.
And how many of those people would want to starve to death if they were in that condition?

That poll is irrelevant, nobody wants to be in her condition. The poll should be about whether or not Terri is being properly euthanized, and I'd be the first to say "No."
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Old 03-23-2005, 06:15 AM   #191
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Originally posted by stray dog
This is one of the greatest tragidies of this case...how the right wing will demonize any one who gets in their way...according to the court appointed independent guardian Mr. Shiavo was at his wife's side for the first four years and atteseted to the quaility care HE made sure she received...there came a point when he realized she was not going to get better, and as a young man still he moved on in his life...NOW he is the villian according to people like you...why is it hard for you to believe that Terri would not want to live like this...I know I wouldn't, in fact MOST people wouldn't...so stop trying to put what you would do on the rest of us...and that includes Terri...YOU didn't love her, YOU don't love her, YOU don't know her...her HUSBAND did...
AFFIDAVIT

STATE OF FLORIDA )

COUNTY OF PINELLAS )


BEFORE ME the undersigned authority personally appeared CARLA SAUER IYER, R.N., who being first duly sworn, deposes and says:

1. My name is Carla Sauer Iyer. I am over the age of eighteen and make this statement of my own personal knowledge.

2. I am a registered nurse in the State of Florida, having been licensed continuously in Florida from 1997 to the present. Prior to that I was a Licensed Practical Nurse for about four years.

3. I was employed at Palm Garden of Largo Convalescent Center in Largo, Florida from April of 1995 to July 1996, while Terri Schiavo was a patient there.

4. It was clear to me at Palm Gardens that all decisions regarding Terri Schiavo were made by Michael Schiavo, with no allowance made for any discussion, debate or normal professional judgment. My initial training there consisted solely of the instruction “Do what Michael Schiavo tells you or you will be terminated.” This struck me as extremely odd.

5. I was very disturbed by the decision making protocol, as no allowance whatsoever was made for professional responsibility. The atmosphere throughout the facility was dominated by Mr. Schiavo’s intimidation. Everyone there, with the exception of several people who seemed to be close to Michael, was intimidated by him. Michael Schiavo always had an overbearing attitude, yelling numerous times such things as “This is my order and you’re going to follow it.” He is very large and uses menacing body language, such as standing too close to you, getting right in your face and practically shouting.

6. To the best of my recollection, rehabilitation had been ordered for Terri, but I never saw any being done or had any reason at all to believe that there was ever any rehab of Terri done at Palm Gardens while I was there. I became concerned because nothing was being done for Terri at all, no antibiotics, no tests, no range of motion therapy, no stimulation, no nothing. Michael said again and again that Terri should NOT get any rehab, that there should be no range of motion whatsoever, or anything else. I and a CNA named Roxy would give Terri range of motion anyway. One time I put a wash cloth in Terri’s hand to keep her fingers from curling together, and Michael saw it and made me take it out, saying that was therapy.

7. Terri’s medical condition was systematically distorted and misrepresented. When I worked with her, she was alert and oriented. Terri spoke on a regular basis while in my presence, saying such things as “mommy,” and “help me.” “Help me” was, in fact, one of her most frequent utterances. I heard her say it hundreds of times. Terri would try to say the word “pain” when she was in discomfort, but it came out more like “pay.” She didn’t say the “n” sound very well. During her menses she would indicate her discomfort by saying “pay” and moving her arms toward her lower abdominal area. Other ways that she would indicate that she was in pain included pursing her lips, grimacing, thrashing in bed, curling her toes or moving her legs around. She would let you know when she had a bowel movement by flipping up the covers and pulling on her diaper.

8. When I came into her room and said “Hi, Terri”, she would always recognize my voice and her name, and would turn her head all the way toward me, saying “Haaaiiiii” sort of, as she did. I recognized this as a “hi”, which is very close to what it sounded like, the whole sound being only a second or two long. When I told her humorous stories about my life or something I read in the paper, Terri would chuckle, sometimes more a giggle or laugh. She would move her whole body, upper and lower. Her legs would sometimes be off the bed, and need to be repositioned. I made numerous entries into the nursing notes in her chart, stating verbatim what she said and her various behaviors, but by my next on-duty shift, the notes would be deleted from her chart. Every time I made a positive entry about any responsiveness of Terri’s, someone would remove it after my shift ended. Michael always demanded to see her chart as soon as he arrived, and would take it in her room with him. I documented Terri’s rehab potential well, writing whole pages about Terri’s responsiveness, but they would always be deleted by the next time I saw her chart. The reason I wrote so much was that everybody else seemed to be afraid to make positive entries for fear of their jobs, but I felt very strongly that a nurses job was to accurately record everything we see and hear that bears on a patients condition and their family. I upheld the Nurses Practice Act, and if it cost me my job, I was willing to accept that.

9. Throughout my time at Palm Gardens, Michael Schiavo was focused on Terri’s death. Michael would say “When is she going to die?,” “Has she died yet?” and “When is that bitch gonna die?” These statements were common knowledge at Palm Gardens, as he would make them casually in passing, without regard even for who he was talking to, as long as it was a staff member. Other statements which I recall him making include “Can’t you do anything to accelerate her death - won’t she ever die?” When she wouldn’t die, Michael would be furious. Michael was also adamant that the family should not be given information. He made numerous statements such as “Make sure the parents aren’t contacted.” I recorded Michael’s statements word for word in Terri’s chart, but these entries were also deleted after the end of my shift. Standing orders were that the family wasn’t to be contacted, in fact, there was a large sign in the front of her chart that said under no circumstances was her family to be called, call Michael immediately, but I would call them, anyway, because I thought they should know about their daughter.

10. Any time Terri would be sick, like with a UTI or fluid buildup in her lungs, colds, pneumonia, Michael would be visibly excited, thrilled even, hoping that she would die. He would call me, as I was the nurse supervisor on the floor, and ask for every little detail about her temperature, blood pressure, etc., and would call back frequently asking if she was dead yet. He would blurt out “I’m going to be rich!,” and would talk about all the things he would buy when Terri died, which included a new car, a new boat, and going to Europe, among other things.

11. When Michael visited Terri, he always came alone and always had the door closed and locked while he was with Terri. He would typically be there about twenty minutes or so. When he left Terri would would be trembling, crying hysterically, and would be very pale and have cold sweats. It looked to me like Terri was having a hypoglycemic reaction, so I’d check her blood sugar. The glucometer reading would be so low it was below the range where it would register an actual number reading. I would put dextrose in Terri’s mouth to counteract it. This happened about five times on my shift as I recall. Normally Terri’s blood sugar levels were very stable due to the uniformity of her diet through tube feeding. It is my belief that Michael injected Terri with Regular insulin, which is very fast acting.

12. The longer I was employed at Palm Gardens the more concerned I became about patient care, both relating to Terri Schiavo, for the reasons I’ve said, and other patients, too. There was an LPN named Carolyn Adams, known as “Andy” Adams who was a particular concern. An unusual number of patients seemed to die on her shift, but she was completely unconcerned, making statements such as “They are old - let them die.” I couldn’t believe her attitude or the fact that it didn’t seem to attract any attention. She made many comments about Terri being a waste of money, that she should die. She said it was costing Michael a lot of money to keep her alive, and that he complained about it constantly (I heard him complain about it all the time, too.) Both Michael and Adams said that she would be worth more to him if she were dead. I ultimately called the police relative to this situation, and was terminated the next day. Other reasons were cited, but I was convinced it was because of my “rocking the boat.”

13. Ms. Adams was one of the people who did not seem to be intimidated by Michael. In fact, they seemed to be very close, and Adams would do whatever Michael told her. Michael sometimes called Adams at night and spoke at length. I was not able to hear the content of these phone calls, but I knew it was him talking to her because she would tell me afterward and relay orders from him.

14. While at Palm Gardens, I became fearful for my personal safety. This was due to Michael’s constant intimidation, including his menacing body language, vocal tone and mannerisms.

15. I have contacted the Schindler family because I just couldn’t stand by and let Terri die without the truth being known.

FURTHER AFFIANT SAYETH NAUGHT.



CARLA SAUER IYER, R.N.

The foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me this _____ day of September, 2003, by CARLA SAUER IYER, R.N., who produced her Florida driver’s license as identification, and who did / did not take an oath.


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Old 03-23-2005, 06:30 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
AFFIDAVIT

STATE OF FLORIDA )

COUNTY OF PINELLAS )


BEFORE ME the undersigned authority personally appeared CARLA SAUER IYER, R.N., who being first duly sworn, deposes and says:

1. My name is Carla Sauer Iyer. I am over the age of eighteen and make this statement of my own personal knowledge.

2. I am a registered nurse in the State of Florida, having been licensed continuously in Florida from 1997 to the present. Prior to that I was a Licensed Practical Nurse for about four years.

3. I was employed at Palm Garden of Largo Convalescent Center in Largo, Florida from April of 1995 to July 1996, while Terri Schiavo was a patient there.

4. It was clear to me at Palm Gardens that all decisions regarding Terri Schiavo were made by Michael Schiavo, with no allowance made for any discussion, debate or normal professional judgment. My initial training there consisted solely of the instruction “Do what Michael Schiavo tells you or you will be terminated.” This struck me as extremely odd.

5. I was very disturbed by the decision making protocol, as no allowance whatsoever was made for professional responsibility. The atmosphere throughout the facility was dominated by Mr. Schiavo’s intimidation. Everyone there, with the exception of several people who seemed to be close to Michael, was intimidated by him. Michael Schiavo always had an overbearing attitude, yelling numerous times such things as “This is my order and you’re going to follow it.” He is very large and uses menacing body language, such as standing too close to you, getting right in your face and practically shouting.

6. To the best of my recollection, rehabilitation had been ordered for Terri, but I never saw any being done or had any reason at all to believe that there was ever any rehab of Terri done at Palm Gardens while I was there. I became concerned because nothing was being done for Terri at all, no antibiotics, no tests, no range of motion therapy, no stimulation, no nothing. Michael said again and again that Terri should NOT get any rehab, that there should be no range of motion whatsoever, or anything else. I and a CNA named Roxy would give Terri range of motion anyway. One time I put a wash cloth in Terri’s hand to keep her fingers from curling together, and Michael saw it and made me take it out, saying that was therapy.

7. Terri’s medical condition was systematically distorted and misrepresented. When I worked with her, she was alert and oriented. Terri spoke on a regular basis while in my presence, saying such things as “mommy,” and “help me.” “Help me” was, in fact, one of her most frequent utterances. I heard her say it hundreds of times. Terri would try to say the word “pain” when she was in discomfort, but it came out more like “pay.” She didn’t say the “n” sound very well. During her menses she would indicate her discomfort by saying “pay” and moving her arms toward her lower abdominal area. Other ways that she would indicate that she was in pain included pursing her lips, grimacing, thrashing in bed, curling her toes or moving her legs around. She would let you know when she had a bowel movement by flipping up the covers and pulling on her diaper.

8. When I came into her room and said “Hi, Terri”, she would always recognize my voice and her name, and would turn her head all the way toward me, saying “Haaaiiiii” sort of, as she did. I recognized this as a “hi”, which is very close to what it sounded like, the whole sound being only a second or two long. When I told her humorous stories about my life or something I read in the paper, Terri would chuckle, sometimes more a giggle or laugh. She would move her whole body, upper and lower. Her legs would sometimes be off the bed, and need to be repositioned. I made numerous entries into the nursing notes in her chart, stating verbatim what she said and her various behaviors, but by my next on-duty shift, the notes would be deleted from her chart. Every time I made a positive entry about any responsiveness of Terri’s, someone would remove it after my shift ended. Michael always demanded to see her chart as soon as he arrived, and would take it in her room with him. I documented Terri’s rehab potential well, writing whole pages about Terri’s responsiveness, but they would always be deleted by the next time I saw her chart. The reason I wrote so much was that everybody else seemed to be afraid to make positive entries for fear of their jobs, but I felt very strongly that a nurses job was to accurately record everything we see and hear that bears on a patients condition and their family. I upheld the Nurses Practice Act, and if it cost me my job, I was willing to accept that.

9. Throughout my time at Palm Gardens, Michael Schiavo was focused on Terri’s death. Michael would say “When is she going to die?,” “Has she died yet?” and “When is that bitch gonna die?” These statements were common knowledge at Palm Gardens, as he would make them casually in passing, without regard even for who he was talking to, as long as it was a staff member. Other statements which I recall him making include “Can’t you do anything to accelerate her death - won’t she ever die?” When she wouldn’t die, Michael would be furious. Michael was also adamant that the family should not be given information. He made numerous statements such as “Make sure the parents aren’t contacted.” I recorded Michael’s statements word for word in Terri’s chart, but these entries were also deleted after the end of my shift. Standing orders were that the family wasn’t to be contacted, in fact, there was a large sign in the front of her chart that said under no circumstances was her family to be called, call Michael immediately, but I would call them, anyway, because I thought they should know about their daughter.

10. Any time Terri would be sick, like with a UTI or fluid buildup in her lungs, colds, pneumonia, Michael would be visibly excited, thrilled even, hoping that she would die. He would call me, as I was the nurse supervisor on the floor, and ask for every little detail about her temperature, blood pressure, etc., and would call back frequently asking if she was dead yet. He would blurt out “I’m going to be rich!,” and would talk about all the things he would buy when Terri died, which included a new car, a new boat, and going to Europe, among other things.

11. When Michael visited Terri, he always came alone and always had the door closed and locked while he was with Terri. He would typically be there about twenty minutes or so. When he left Terri would would be trembling, crying hysterically, and would be very pale and have cold sweats. It looked to me like Terri was having a hypoglycemic reaction, so I’d check her blood sugar. The glucometer reading would be so low it was below the range where it would register an actual number reading. I would put dextrose in Terri’s mouth to counteract it. This happened about five times on my shift as I recall. Normally Terri’s blood sugar levels were very stable due to the uniformity of her diet through tube feeding. It is my belief that Michael injected Terri with Regular insulin, which is very fast acting.

12. The longer I was employed at Palm Gardens the more concerned I became about patient care, both relating to Terri Schiavo, for the reasons I’ve said, and other patients, too. There was an LPN named Carolyn Adams, known as “Andy” Adams who was a particular concern. An unusual number of patients seemed to die on her shift, but she was completely unconcerned, making statements such as “They are old - let them die.” I couldn’t believe her attitude or the fact that it didn’t seem to attract any attention. She made many comments about Terri being a waste of money, that she should die. She said it was costing Michael a lot of money to keep her alive, and that he complained about it constantly (I heard him complain about it all the time, too.) Both Michael and Adams said that she would be worth more to him if she were dead. I ultimately called the police relative to this situation, and was terminated the next day. Other reasons were cited, but I was convinced it was because of my “rocking the boat.”

13. Ms. Adams was one of the people who did not seem to be intimidated by Michael. In fact, they seemed to be very close, and Adams would do whatever Michael told her. Michael sometimes called Adams at night and spoke at length. I was not able to hear the content of these phone calls, but I knew it was him talking to her because she would tell me afterward and relay orders from him.

14. While at Palm Gardens, I became fearful for my personal safety. This was due to Michael’s constant intimidation, including his menacing body language, vocal tone and mannerisms.

15. I have contacted the Schindler family because I just couldn’t stand by and let Terri die without the truth being known.

FURTHER AFFIANT SAYETH NAUGHT.



CARLA SAUER IYER, R.N.

The foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me this _____ day of September, 2003, by CARLA SAUER IYER, R.N., who produced her Florida driver’s license as identification, and who did / did not take an oath.


You call that LOVE?
and what did the court find?
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Old 03-23-2005, 06:31 AM   #193
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If you are gonna quote court testimony you should let us know the conclusion...
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Old 03-23-2005, 06:34 AM   #194
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in fact, what has more than 15 courts concluded?...including now 2 federal courts?....s
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Old 03-23-2005, 06:34 AM   #195
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
This only reiterates my comment. If she has to be euthanized, why starve her to death?

and i'll reiterate what has been said.

it is illegal to euthanize someone -- it is illegal to administer a life-taking injection, or whatever the equivalent might be. the reason why it is illegal is because that implicates the doctor in the taking of a life, even a life that has no quality or is terminal. euthanasia laws are designed to protect the doctors.

you've heard of cases where cancer patients have refused painful treatments? this is similar. to not treat someone -- either wtih chemo, in the cancer patients place; or to allow someone to refuse that which might keep them alive, in Terri's case food and water -- is not considered euthanasia, because it's a way of allowing nature to take it's course and to keep a doctor from having to perform a direct action that results in death.

denying someone food and water, whether by their own wishes or the wishes of the immediate family (and, as has been attested to in this thread alone, there are people who are of sound mind, but terminally ill, who have chosen this method to end their life) is not akin to a healthy person starving to death. these are already terminal cases, their bodies are very, very weak, and they will be administered pain medication by doctors in order to prevent them from feeling any discomfort.

it happens all the time.

please don't believe all the crap spewing from the vile mouth of Tom DeLay, this talk of it being "barbaric."
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