MERGED: Terri Schiavo - Page 11 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-22-2005, 08:22 AM   #151
pax
ONE
love, blood, life
 
pax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ewen's new American home
Posts: 11,412
Local Time: 01:10 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
the other good thing about this: the GOP has overplayed their hand; i'm sensing a backlash.

and rightly so.

Heard on the radio this morning...67% disapproved of the Congressional involvement.

__________________

__________________
and you hunger for the time
time to heal, desire, time


Join Amnesty.
pax is offline  
Old 03-22-2005, 08:23 AM   #152
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 12:10 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl


joyfulgirl didn't sleep either and neither did her officemate. What's up with that? I blame the equinox.

dunno. i'd just had a great monday as well, and topped it off by pounding out my fastest 4 miles ever on the treadmill (i have COBL to thank for that ... no better U2 song to run to).

then couldn't sleep. melatonin didn't help. neither did Ny-Quil. neither did a scotch.

so now my brain's all swirly today, and i'm slammed at work again.

(and yet, i still find time for blue crack ... )
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 03-22-2005, 08:42 AM   #153
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Strong Badia
Posts: 3,430
Local Time: 05:10 AM
Quote:
"Terri died 15 years ago," Schiavo said, referring to the collapse and cardiac arrest that doctors say virtually destroyed her brain. "It's time for her to be with the Lord like she wanted to be."
A lot of interesting thoughts and questions raised on this board.

Unfortunately, this guy gets no sympathy from me. I'm not convinced that "until death do us part" includes death forced by your own hand.

Here's what sketches me out...

He's had two kids with another woman.

Can't marry her until he can secure a divorce from his wife.

Can't get a divorce from his wife because she's unable to sign the papers.

But if she dies...

And if it's true that the reason she had a heart attack in the first place was because he was encouraging her to stay thin...

I'm also sketched out by the long-term implications of this case. I'm glad that people here are discussing the merits of a living will. But deciding someone should die when they don't have a voice in the matter (especially considering the diametrically opposed testimonies about whether or not she wanted to die in the first place -- why did it take Michael 7 years to "remember" that his wife wanted to die?)...

As far as the judiciary intruding on the case of a man putting his wife to death -- I wonder what the judge in the Scott Peterson trial would have to say about that?

The principle that murder is wrong is regulated every day by the judicial and legislative branches of government. I'm not sure why suddenly everyone's saying this case is different...

Don't want to raise ire (esp with a grumpy Irvine ), I'm just saying.
__________________
nathan1977 is offline  
Old 03-22-2005, 08:49 AM   #154
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 09:10 PM
I'm not sure this was mentioned yet, but consider the irony. All this was brought on by Terri's anorexia/bulimia. And now they will starve her to death.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 03-22-2005, 08:52 AM   #155
The Fly
 
Maeve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Mid Atlantic U.S.A.
Posts: 110
Local Time: 12:10 AM
Hi McPhistowannabe,

Thank you so much for posting Heidi Law's statements. I literally have tears flowing out of my eyes, by just reading how Terri's husband would deny her any kind of treatment. How can he be so cruel...When, I was younger, I worked as a CNA and I know how important it is for stroke and paralized patients to have simple range of motion exercises. The muscles can shrink, causing great discomfort for the patient. I also know that when someone wants to die, they simply give up. I have seen this, first hand.

Also, when working with the Comotose and patients with Alzhemier disease, human touch and voice. Fresh air, soft music, photoghraphs, reading to the patient etc. greatly helps...You can not imagine how important this is.

I am sorry to disagree with some folks, but I believe that Terri is being treated worst than any prisoner of war. Due, to her husband. And I use that word very 'loosely' here.

And on a final note, to Heidi Law and all of the other nurses who cared for Terri. You are angels. God Bless you for loving this woman and fighting for what she wants. If...Terri really wanted to die. She would have died...well...long before now.
__________________
Maeve is offline  
Old 03-22-2005, 08:52 AM   #156
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 12:10 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I'm not sure this was mentioned yet, but consider the irony. All this was brought on by Terri's anorexia/bulimia. And now they will starve her to death.

as has been mentioned by myself, Melon, and even Irvine's father who is an MD, this is a 100% natural way to die and it will be totally painless and it happens all the time amongst the terminally ill.

it is not "barbaric." it is humane.

but, yes, i do see the irony.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 03-22-2005, 09:05 AM   #157
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Strong Badia
Posts: 3,430
Local Time: 05:10 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



as has been mentioned by myself, Melon, and even Irvine's father who is an MD, this is a 100% natural way to die and it will be totally painless and it happens all the time amongst the terminally ill.
I wonder what it feels like to starve to death?
__________________
nathan1977 is offline  
Old 03-22-2005, 09:15 AM   #158
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,615
Local Time: 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



dunno. i'd just had a great monday as well, and topped it off by pounding out my fastest 4 miles ever on the treadmill (i have COBL to thank for that ... no better U2 song to run to).

then couldn't sleep. melatonin didn't help. neither did Ny-Quil. neither did a scotch.

so now my brain's all swirly today, and i'm slammed at work again.

(and yet, i still find time for blue crack ... )
We're leading parallel lives. Substitute treadmill for pilates/yoga, melatonin for my secret amino acids/minerals sleep remedy, and the rest sounds pretty much like my day and evening. And I've get to get off the blue crack to do a board report.

Re: the bulimia irony...I actually just came across that little factoid yesterday and thought how ironic.
__________________
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 03-22-2005, 09:24 AM   #159
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 12:10 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977
I wonder what it feels like to starve to death?
If you're dying, it's painless. It's more painful to force-feed and hydrate, as organs actually start failing and shutting down before you die. Since the fluids have nowhere to go, they accumulate in the lungs and the patient will drown.

In the case of Terri Shiavo, her cerebral cortex is non-existent. Hence, her means of consciousness and even the sensation of pain are gone. Not only would she not even know she's been unhooked, but she wouldn't even feel starving to death. She's incapable of feeling either of that when those parts of the brain literally don't exist any longer.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 03-22-2005, 09:49 AM   #160
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,994
Local Time: 12:10 AM
That's all very clinical, but it's so much more than that to her family. I don't mean to be argumentative and I know everyone understands it is so much more than that to them.

A doctor could explain all of that to me if I was in their shoes, but it would still be hell for me wondering and questioning.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 03-22-2005, 09:54 AM   #161
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 12:10 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by melon


If you're dying, it's painless. It's more painful to force-feed and hydrate, as organs actually start failing and shutting down before you die. Since the fluids have nowhere to go, they accumulate in the lungs and the patient will drown.

In the case of Terri Shiavo, her cerebral cortex is non-existent. Hence, her means of consciousness and even the sensation of pain are gone. Not only would she not even know she's been unhooked, but she wouldn't even feel starving to death. She's incapable of feeling either of that when those parts of the brain literally don't exist any longer.

Melon

yes, exactly.

even people who have brain function and choose this method to end their lives are given enough pain mediciation so that its a very peaceful way to go.

this happens all the time, and a way of ending life, naturally.

i'd choose it for myself, should the situation arise.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 03-22-2005, 09:57 AM   #162
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,499
Local Time: 12:10 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl


We're leading parallel lives. Substitute treadmill for pilates/yoga, melatonin for my secret amino acids/minerals sleep remedy, and the rest sounds pretty much like my day and evening. And I've get to get off the blue crack to do a board report.

Re: the bulimia irony...I actually just came across that little factoid yesterday and thought how ironic.

secret amino acids? do share ...
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 03-22-2005, 10:02 AM   #163
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,615
Local Time: 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



secret amino acids? do share ...
The amino acids aren't secret, just the combination of things I take (L-ornithine, taurine, magnesium and B-6)...and it probably only works if you're deficient in any of these things, which I as a recovering vegetarian of 18 years, am.

Sorry, off-topic.
__________________
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 03-22-2005, 10:42 AM   #164
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 12:10 AM
On a political front, President Bush has a good dose of "hypocrisy" right now:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...wa_1&printer=1

Quote:
Law Bush signed as Texas governor prompts cries of hypocrisy

Mon Mar 21, 7:22 PM ET

By William Douglas, Knight Ridder Newspapers

WASHINGTON - The federal law that President Bush signed early Monday in an effort to prolong Terri Schiavo's life appears to contradict a right-to-die law that he signed as Texas governor, prompting cries of hypocrisy from congressional Democrats and some bioethicists.

In 1999, then-Gov. Bush signed the Advance Directives Act, which lets a patient's surrogate make life-ending decisions on his or her behalf. The measure also allows Texas hospitals to disconnect patients from life-sustaining systems if a physician, in consultation with a hospital bioethics committee, concludes that the patient's condition is hopeless.

Bioethicists familiar with the Texas law said Monday that if the Schiavo case had occurred in Texas, her husband would be the legal decision-maker and, because he and her doctors agreed that she had no hope of recovery, her feeding tube would be disconnected.

"The Texas law signed in 1999 allowed next of kin to decide what the patient wanted, if competent," said John Robertson, a University of Texas bioethicist.

While Congress and the White House were considering legislation recently in the Schiavo case, Bush's Texas law faced its first high-profile test. With the permission of a judge, a Houston hospital disconnected a critically ill infant from his breathing tube last week against his mother's wishes after doctors determined that continuing life support would be futile.

"The mother down in Texas must be reading the Schiavo case and scratching her head," said Dr. Howard Brody, the director of Michigan State University's Center for Ethics and Humanities in the Life Sciences. "This does appear to be a contradiction."

Brody said that, in taking up the Schiavo case, Bush and Congress had shattered a body of bioethics law and practice.

"This is crazy. It's political grandstanding," he said.

Bush's apparent shift on right-to-die decisions wasn't lost on Democrats. During heated debate on the Schiavo case, Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Fla., accused Bush of hypocrisy.

"It appears that President Bush felt, as governor, that there was a point which, when doctors felt there was no further hope for the patient, that it is appropriate for an end-of-life decision to be made, even over the objection of family members," Wasserman Schultz said. "There is an obvious conflict here between the president's feelings on this matter now as compared to when he was governor of Texas."

White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan termed Wasserman Schultz's remarks "uninformed accusations" and denied that there was any conflict in Bush's positions on the two laws.

"The legislation he signed (early Monday) is consistent with his views," McClellan said. "The (1999) legislation he signed into law actually provided new protections for patients ... prior to the passage of the '99 legislation that he signed, there were no protections."

Wasserman Schultz stuck by her remarks when told of McClellan's comments.

"It's a fact in black and white," she said. "It's a direct conflict on the position he has in the Schiavo case."

Tom Mayo, a Southern Methodist University Law School associate professor who helped draft the Texas law, said he saw no inconsistency in Bush's stands.

"It's not really a conflict, because the (Texas) law addresses different types of disputes, meaning the dispute between decision-maker and physician," he said. "The Schiavo case is a disagreement among family members."

Bush himself framed the Schiavo decision this way Monday.

"This is a complex case with serious issues, but in extraordinary circumstances like this, it is wise to always err on the side of life," the president said during a Social Security event in Tucson, Ariz. He didn't mention the 1999 Texas law.
Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 03-22-2005, 11:02 AM   #165
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 09:10 PM
Who is the appropriate decision maker in this case: Bob and Mary Schindler or Michael Schiavo?

While Michael is still technically married to Terri, can you still consider him the husband considering he is living with and has children with another women (for all intents and purposes his real wife).
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com