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Old 08-17-2005, 08:51 AM   #16
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i still think it's ok to blame the terroists.

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Old 08-17-2005, 09:44 AM   #17
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Um....this is a very important fact in the NY Times story. Shame on Rep. Weldon for trying to make this into some political football to justify the Patriot Act if that's what he's trying to do or shame on the Pentagon if they were told to not release this information to the commission

The statement said that while the commission did learn about Able Danger in 2003 and immediately requested Pentagon files about it, none of the documents turned over by the Defense Department referred to Mr. Atta or any of the other hijackers.
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Old 08-17-2005, 12:58 PM   #18
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Sharkey I miss you !!! How the heck are you?
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Old 08-17-2005, 01:02 PM   #19
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i still think it's ok to blame the terroists.

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I still think it's ok to question our government.
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Old 08-17-2005, 01:25 PM   #20
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'Able Danger' Stopped From Informing FBI

'Able Danger' Stopped From Informing FBI
Aug 17 3:13 PM US/Eastern


By KIMBERLY HEFLING
Associated Press Writer


WASHINGTON


An Army intelligence officer said Wednesday he told staff members from the Sept. 11 commission that a secret military unit had identified two of the three cells involved in the 2001 terrorist strikes more than a year before the attacks.

Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer, who said he was associated with the "Able Danger" unit, said that during a 2003 meeting in Afghanistan, he mentioned that the unit had identified Sept. 11 ringleader Mohamed Atta along with three other hijackers as terrorist suspects.

Three months later, in January 2004, Shaffer said he was back in the United States and offered to follow up with the commission, but his offer was declined.

"I just walked away shocked that they would kind of change their mind, but I figured someone with equal or better knowledge ... probably came and talked to them, so they must've taken care of it," Shaffer said.

Shaffer said he was told the commission obtained only two briefcase- size loads of documents from at least 15-plus boxes of information on Able Danger.

Lt. Col. Chris Conway, a Pentagon spokesman, said Wednesday an investigation into Able Danger was under way.

The department "has been working to gain more clarity on this issue. Accordingly, we continue to interview a number of individuals associated with Able Danger," Conway said.

Conway said it was too soon to comment on findings related to the program.

Al Felzenberg, spokesman for the commission's follow-up project, said the commission is awaiting the results of the Pentagon's investigation.

A statement last Friday by former commission chairman Thomas Kean and vice chairman Lee Hamilton said the commission did not obtain enough information on the operation to consider it historically significant.

Shaffer said Able Danger identified Atta and three other Sept. 11 hijackers in 2000, but that military lawyers stopped the unit from sharing the information with the FBI out of concerns about the legality of gathering and sharing information on people in the U.S.

"The lawyers' view was to leave them alone, they had the same basic rights as a U.S. citizen, a U.S. person and therefore the data was kind of left alone," Shaffer said.

Shaffer said he and a Navy officer disagreed with that and tried to set up meetings with the FBI, but each time the idea was rejected by lawyers from the Special Operations command.

"There was a feeling ... if we give this information to the FBI and something goes wrong, we're going to get blamed for whatever goes wrong," Shaffer said.

The statement by Kean and Hamilton said only Atta was mentioned to them as being identified by Able Danger. They were told by a Navy officer about Atta 10 days before the commission released its report in July 2004, but the officer did not have documentation to back it up, the statement said.

The statement also said the Navy officer's dates related to the pre- Sept. 11 whereabouts of Atta did not fit with what they knew.

Shaffer said it did not surprise him the dates would be different.

Able Danger "wasn't about dates and locations. It was about associations and linkages. That's what the focus was," Shaffer said.

Shaffer said Able Danger identified the terrorists using data mining techniques. His relationship to Able Danger was first reported Tuesday night by The New York Times and Fox News Channel.

Shaffer's lawyer, Mark Zaid, said Wednesday that Shaffer does not have documentation related to Able Danger because his security clearance was suspended in March 2004 because of "petty and frivolous" reasons. They include a dispute over mileage reimbursement and a charges for personal calls on a work cell phone, Zaid said.

Shaffer, an Army reservist, has been on paid administrative leave for the past 16 months, Zaid said. He was an active Army major during his involvement with Able Danger, Zaid said.

Rep. Curt Weldon, R-Pa., vice chairman of the House Armed Services and Homeland Security committees, has said the Sept. 11 commission did not adequately investigate the claim that four of the hijackers had been identified more than a year before the attacks.
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Old 08-17-2005, 01:32 PM   #21
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I already posted that

this will all go away just like the Rove thing did
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Old 08-17-2005, 01:52 PM   #22
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of course I was only KIDDING about the , I'm even paranoid about what smilies I use here..
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Old 08-17-2005, 01:54 PM   #23
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I know...but your thread title...was kind of silly!!!!
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Old 08-17-2005, 01:56 PM   #24
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I know...but your thread title...was kind of silly!!!!
well I gotta do something to get people to read it if it's not about sex or breasts
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Old 08-17-2005, 02:34 PM   #25
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Quote:
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well I gotta do something to get people to read it if it's not about sex or breasts
Hmmmm....

I hate one issue people....

There are other body parts that catch my eyes....
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Old 08-18-2005, 05:08 AM   #26
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see, no one replied under this title either

I like Gabe Kapler's body parts /random nonsensicalcompletelyirrelevantreply/
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Old 08-18-2005, 05:17 AM   #27
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A marriage of threads has been effected.

Continue discussing.
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Old 08-19-2005, 06:03 AM   #28
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I guess no one wants to continue discussing

slate.com

The "Two Atta" Theory
It might explain the Able Danger scandal.
By Mickey Kaus
Updated Friday, Aug. 19, 2005

"Mohammed Atta and Date Bef 09/11/01": Tom Maguire had a good idea--since Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer claims that the secret Able Danger program had mined public databases to turn up Mohammed Atta's name prior to 9/11, why not look at some public databases, like NEXIS, and see whether Atta turns up? If you send NEXIS the following request

mohammed atta and date bef 09/11/01

it will turn up a 1/28/91 Atlanta Constitution story with the following initiallly astonishing paragraph:

There was a report on "60 Minutes" in which an expert said that Abu Nidal cells were in the United States. Is that true?

Yes, In New York, Dearborn a Michigan city with a large Arab population and Los Angeles. But that doesn't mean they're terrorists. They're support groups, and for the FBI to uncover enough about them and to go through the business of trying to deport them is a long and difficult matter that is not at all easy to accomplish. In 1987, the FBI arrested an Abu Nidal organization member Mohammed Atta in New York on an Israeli warrant charging him with participating in an attack on a bus carrying civilians in the Israeli-occupied West Bank in 1986. They're around.

It turns out that this is not the same Mohammed Atta who flew a plane into the World Trade Center on 9/11. It's a Mohammed Atta who was (as the story says) an Abu Nidal terrorist extradited to Israel to face charges of fire bombing and machine-gunning a bus.

But the more you think about it, the more Maguire's theory--that the existence of this other Atta explains the Able Danger scandal--makes sense. Specifically, Maguire speculates that the "Atta" fingered by Able Danger was really the first, "Abu Nidal" Atta, and not the second, 9/11 "Al Qaeda" Atta. It was the first Atta's name that was on the list that Lt. Col. Shaffer remembers being shown.

Indeed, Maguires "Two Atta" scenario explains at least three otherwise puzzling aspects of the Able Danger Story:

1) Q. How did the data mining program name an obscure Hamburg grad student so efficiently? A: It didn't. It named a known terrorist--it might even have started with his name. As Maguire argues:

If you were data mining for new terrorists, mightn't you start with him and see who his friends and connections were? As Shaffer explained in an interview with Michael Savage, its all about linkages.

2) Q. What database could possibly have turned up the 9/11 Atta, whose only apparent contact witht he U.S. was applying for a visa? A: It didn't turn up that Atta. It turned up another Atta who had a longer paper trail and was actually arrested.

3) Q: Why was the Defense department so skittish about passing on Atta's name. A. That's understandable if, as Maguire asserts, the first, "Abu Nidal" Atta was a naturalized U.S. citizen. Pentagon spying on U.S. citizens was of questionable legality.

Of course, just because the Atta on the list was the "wrong" Atta doesn't mean that, if the Able Danger info had been shared with the FBI, we wouldn't have accidentally stopped or caught the "right" Atta before 9/11. ...And it still would have been nice if the 9/11 Commission had bothered to clear all this up! ... P.S.: It's also possible, of course, that Able Danger's massive computer program turned up info on both Attas because it assumed, wrongly, that they were the same person
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Old 08-19-2005, 10:45 AM   #29
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You do know that one of the theories is that there were multiple Oswalds....As in Lee Harvey......
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Old 08-19-2005, 10:50 AM   #30
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I'm still do you mean that last article I posted or something else?

sorry, I guess I'm easily about this, or I was thinking about Gabe Kapler
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