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Old 02-12-2008, 06:37 PM   #16
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Well, uh, I guess it's the least they can do
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Old 02-12-2008, 06:40 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by blueeyedgirl
Didn't watch Nelson's reply. I'm supposed to be working right now Anyway, I didn't think he would add anything of note, which he seems not to have
He just made himself look like an idiot, torn between bigotry he doesn't want to surrender and a future he can't resist. He knew opposing the apology would be absolute political suicide, but he sure as hell tried to make it clear that he has "reservations" - or, as I said, bigotry. He expressly stated there should be no guilt and no compensation, he invoked the NT intervention in a manner that barely seemed connected to anything going on, he tried to emphasise the supposed "good intentions" of many people who did the stealing, and he made himself look totally redundant by trying to talk about proud soldiers who fought for this country overseas. What on earth did that have to do with anything, Brendan? His speech was pointless hot air.

Quote:
Axver, I didn't realise that you moved here right at the beginning of the Howard era. Let me tell you, the last 11 years have been a blight and aberration on this country's history. We may have had a "strong economy" but to hell with social integration and inclusion. I have very strong hopes that this government will remember these principles and govern for ALL Australia.
Yeah, my family really chose the right time to come here, huh? All my teenage years, all I've known of the Australian government is Howard's arrogant divisiveness, his emphasis on economic prosperity at the expense of all else. Without social prosperity, economic prosperity is meaningless. I think Rudd realises that and this speech was the crucial step forward we needed - I am so glad it came right at the start of parliament. I too hope we can now move into an era where both communities, Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal, can prosper together in every sense, in mutual respect and understanding. I want to be proud of the piece of paper I have that says I'm an Australian citizen, you know?
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Old 02-12-2008, 06:56 PM   #18
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To me, it's the exact same mentality that leads to so-called 'Liberal' leaders expressing (no doubt carefully honed) reservations about this apology as led Western powers to invade Iraq - i.e., imperialism, the imperialist mentality.

'Neo-conservatism', which to me is just a fancy name for the imperialist mentality, the colonialist mentality - and we see that same mentality it on this forum time after time - to me, there's no difference between someone justifying the treatment of the Aboriginals to someone justifying the Iraq war for the sake of 'spreading democracy', etc.

I had to laugh a few years ago when I saw that huckster Tony Blair offering some kind of apology for the Irish famine while simultaneously insisting on invading Iraq being the right decision.

Rudd, at least, has clean hands.
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Old 02-12-2008, 07:38 PM   #19
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You know, I'm trying not to be too starry eyed by this government. Rudd is a politician after all, and they tend to behave like politicians but I still feel he has something that Howard crucially lacked. Empathy, I don't know, but definitely he has it.

I was reading a story the other day about SA's Premier of the 70s Don Dunstan (who was Premier when I was a kid) and I remembered the glory days of when government acted FOR people - he championed the arts, women's rights, multiculturalism, he was the first state premier to decriminalise homosexuality. At the same time Whitlam made university education free to all, and not available just for the wealthy. Governments can act responsibly. The last 11 years of Howardism had lost that. Maybe we've got it back We can only hope.
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Old 02-12-2008, 07:39 PM   #20
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is there any discussion of reparations for Aboriginals?
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Old 02-12-2008, 09:12 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
is there any discussion of reparations for Aboriginals?
yes,

they will each receive one white child
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Old 02-12-2008, 09:43 PM   #22
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4 Liberal Party MP's were a deliberate no-show. Another sat there in parliament reading a magazine, making a show of ignoring the speech.

4 of the 5 living past Prime Ministers were present. No prizes for guessing which one wasn't.

Irvine, no, no talk of reparations. In fact, todays apology was carefully made from the Parliament of Australia, not the Government of Australia.
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:16 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Axver
Wow, Rudd was simply fantastic. An eloquent and fitting apology. That was the unequivocal and unconditional apology this country needs. We all live in a historical context that cannot be pushed under the carpet. For the first time since I moved to this country in 1997, I am genuinely proud of the government and believe we are moving into a better, fairer, more equal future. Rudd really did exceptionally not just in reaching out to the Aboriginal community, but in seeking to unite non-Indigenous Australia across partisan lines too. I feel that he was not speaking for any faction, but for a country unified across racial and ideological lines. I hope we can go on in that spirit.

Brendan Nelson's response for the Opposition was ... interesting, and for the most part not in a good way. It was startling to hear a Liberal leader say sorry and offer support for the apology - in other words, he started well. I could not have imagined that happening just three months ago. However, parts of his speech were frankly disgusting, trying to deflect the issue with irrelevancies, seeking to avoid responsibility, and sometimes appearing to offer a defence. I thought some of his comments were inappropriate, particularly his invokation of the Northern Territory intervention in a manner that was nothing short of political points-scoring. SBS reports that outside the parliament, the assembled crowd watching on a big screen booed him and turned their backs, and rightly so.
Axver, I could not have put it any better.......except that i want to add that i am very proud to be Australian today, proud to have voted for Labor. I am looking forward to seeing the policies that the Rudd Government will put forward to carry out the continuing reconciliation agenda.
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:28 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Earnie Shavers
4 Liberal Party MP's were a deliberate no-show. Another sat there in parliament reading a magazine, making a show of ignoring the speech.

4 of the 5 living past Prime Ministers were present. No prizes for guessing which one wasn't.

Irvine, no, no talk of reparations. In fact, todays apology was carefully made from the Parliament of Australia, not the Government of Australia.
Howard must get off being a total bastard.

There has been discussions, not as much as you would think.....that is why the past government did not dare talk of such a thing as SORRY.....in Howard's eye and clearly still is in the heart of liberal leadership, to say the word SORRY means to accept full responsibilty, and accepting responsibilty means that "C word ".......COMPENSATION!

The indigenous people of Australia don't want that, this is not what they need.....it's not all about the MONEY!

It's about no longer feeling like a second rate citizen, it's about living longer, healthier and being able to pass on the beautiful rich culture of Aboriginal Australia not only through the indigenous but also the non-indigenous.
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:30 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
is there any discussion of reparations for Aboriginals?
The cynic in me automatically responds to this as a knee-jerk token gesture, which as far as a mere speech goes, is all it is; however, the importance of what this will do under a brand new government is what is going to be very telling. You've all heard Howard staunchly, publically, continually, devotedly refuse to enter into any apologist approach, and we've all watched as absolutely nothing unifying has ever been attempted. Rudd, as we all know, is not of the same political ilk as Howard. He's now referred to as Kevin 24/7 instead of Kevin '07 because of all the "vim and vigour" he has for actually doing what he's promised. Time will tell, though.
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:44 AM   #26
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Aren't Rudd and Peter Garrett in the same party?
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Old 02-13-2008, 01:09 AM   #27
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Quote:
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Aren't Rudd and Peter Garrett in the same party?
Yep. Are you a little confused about something?
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Old 02-13-2008, 01:12 AM   #28
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no

Rudd is vim

and Garrett is vigour



Garrett = Australian Labor Party

Rudd = Australian Labor Party

so yes, I guess
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Old 02-13-2008, 01:45 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by fly so high!


Yep. Are you a little confused about something?
Nope. Just wanted to double check. I've been looking into Garrett's political life lately as a longtime fan of Midnight Oil. I thought I read a lot about Rudd. They seem like class guys.
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Old 02-13-2008, 04:53 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoManiac
^Thanks. I didn't look in there because I assumed "Sorry speech" meant something else, like: "That was a sorry speech that McCain gave the other night. "
This speech has been anticipated for about 10 years as the "sorry" speech. Perhaps you are from a different country, yeah? Fair enough.
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