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Old 12-24-2007, 01:00 AM   #106
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Originally posted by Infinitum98


Federal income tax,
DUDE, DO YOU NOT READ YOUR OWN POSTS?
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Old 12-24-2007, 01:37 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha


DUDE, DO YOU NOT READ YOUR OWN POSTS?
Okay, that was a mistake. I meant to write corporate income tax instead of Federal income tax. No need to get all upset and write in caps.
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Old 12-24-2007, 02:25 AM   #108
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Originally posted by Infinitum98


I still don't see why it is unrealistic to get rid of the income tax if we cut enough spending, but that is your position and I disagree.
One fluxuates, and one will have bottom. They will not always balance each other. It's basic economics. You keep looking at it from a one year analysis, you can't do that.
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Old 12-24-2007, 10:38 AM   #109
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What exactly do you mean, no deductions?
Currently, at least in the U.S., you can reduce your income tax burden through a series of deductions, such as mortgage interest, charitable donations, etc. So that's why I mentioned that pretty much no one actually pays the income tax percentage, as described for their income level, because there's a dizzying amount of exceptions. And it is those "exceptions" that allow the wealthy and their "creative" accountants to do anything that they can to avoid taxes, whether legally or illegally. Obviously, if it's done "illegally," it's done with the hope that what they've structured is so complicated that no one bothers to investigate.

The flat tax proponents would do just that too, except that they'd have a flat 17% income tax or so. But, as I said before, with upper income people paying around 35% and the poorest paying 8%, it has the net effect of halving the taxes of the wealthy, while more than doubling the taxes of the poor. A "flat, progressive" tax, at least, would simplify, while keeping a basic level of fairness about it.

It was just a thought, at least. I'm not dedicated to this, and I'll be quick to abandon the idea, if I later believe it to be wrong. I just know that the "flat tax," as proposed by the wealthy, is wrong.

Personally, though, I'd like to see property and sales taxes either eliminated or substantially reduced, rather than income taxes. Property taxes are generally more burdensome to middle class folk than income tax, while running completely contrary to the idea of "private property" (don't pay your property taxes, and the government suddenly has the power to seize it, ultimately proving that we truly own nothing and that we're just "leasing" everything from the government), and sales taxes, of course, affect our spending habits, which can have a negative effect on our economy.
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Old 12-24-2007, 10:54 AM   #110
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Originally posted by Infinitum98


It doesn't seem like you have been reading my posts.

RON PAUL DOES NOT WANT TO REPLACE THE INCOME TAX. HE WANTS TO PAY FOR THE ELIMINATION OF THE INCOME TAX BY CUTTING HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF SPENDING. HE WILL NOT, HOWEVER, GET RID OF THE INCOME TAX WITHOUT CUTTING ENOUGH SPENDING. HE HAS NEVER VOTED FOR AN UNBALANCED BUDGET AND WILL NOT CARELESSLY CUT TAXES WHILE NOT CUTTING SPENDING.
You're right. All caps is rude.
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Old 12-24-2007, 01:01 PM   #111
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


One fluxuates, and one will have bottom. They will not always balance each other. It's basic economics. You keep looking at it from a one year analysis, you can't do that.

Yes, it's based on the last real boom year where incomes etc. were at its height, the income of 2000. Just look at the income two or three years later.
And it's based on the assumption that all the cuts in spending could be made that are needed in order to finance the budget. Seriously, it sounds nice, but it's not realistic that any government will make such huge cuts in spending worth hundreds of billions of dollars.
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Old 12-24-2007, 01:41 PM   #112
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No serious candidate will ever believe it's possible to can the IRS, although it's a good applause line in debates. The tax code can be simplified, but the IRS isn't going anywhere.

I also think it will be tough to make huge cuts in spending, considering the power of lobbyists and the need for politicians to send govt money home to their districts. Not to mention the needs of an increasing, and aging, population. The best we can probably hope for is to slow the rate of increase in spending.
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Old 12-24-2007, 02:46 PM   #113
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Originally posted by melon


Currently, at least in the U.S., you can reduce your income tax burden through a series of deductions, such as mortgage interest, charitable donations, etc.
I do find it interesting that you get to deduct mortgage interest. We cannot do that in Canada except if the property is used for a business purpose (or to earn income from property). I'm assuming you're talking about cutting deductions related to non-business owners?
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Old 12-24-2007, 03:07 PM   #114
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I do find it interesting that you get to deduct mortgage interest. We cannot do that in Canada except if the property is used for a business purpose (or to earn income from property). I'm assuming you're talking about cutting deductions related to non-business owners?
Yes. All individuals who have a mortgage on their home can currently deduct their mortgage interest. Prior to 1986, I believe, you could deduct pretty much all personal loan interest.
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Old 12-24-2007, 03:18 PM   #115
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Originally posted by melon

Prior to 1986, I believe, you could deduct pretty much all personal loan interest.
I remember credit card interest was deductible.
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Old 12-24-2007, 06:51 PM   #116
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I guess it's to promote home ownership. Then again, if you're exempt from capital gains on the sale of your home, then I don't really see why you should also get a mortgage interest deduction (sounds like double dipping to me).
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Old 12-24-2007, 06:54 PM   #117
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There are limits to capital gains taxes, though.
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Old 12-24-2007, 07:00 PM   #118
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If I'm correct, you only get the exemption from capital gains tax only once in a lifetime on a sale of a primary home. You can deduct your property taxes too. But since your total deductions would have to be greater than your personal exemption, many people don't itemize and therefore don't get the deduction other than the personal one and don't take the mortgage interest deduction.
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Old 12-24-2007, 07:37 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Personally, though, I'd like to see property and sales taxes either eliminated or substantially reduced, rather than income taxes. Property taxes are generally more burdensome to middle class folk than income tax, while running completely contrary to the idea of "private property" (don't pay your property taxes, and the government suddenly has the power to seize it, ultimately proving that we truly own nothing and that we're just "leasing" everything from the government), and sales taxes, of course, affect our spending habits, which can have a negative effect on our economy.
In times of economic distress in a state or municipality, that setup could lead to sharp cuts in essential government services (police, fire, etc. ) however. Some spending discipline might be in order - far too many people spend beyond their means on discretionary goods and services. Consumer debt is at an all time high. A lot of the "economic growth" of the past few years was illusory as it was financed by a credit bubble, and now the hangover has started. If there is a 23% sales tax implemented, it can be limited to non-essentials and/or somewhat offset by capping credit card interest rates (many people pay credit card rates of over 30%, which is an informal tax paid to banks).
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Old 12-25-2007, 12:55 AM   #120
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California substantially reduced our property taxes. It hasn't worked well as far as, say, funding fire departments, libraries, police departments, etc.
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