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Old 01-14-2008, 11:17 PM   #421
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no it would not be immoral. Whether or not they have the title, they would have all the same rights that a married couple would have.

I have to admit it's getting pretty tiresome watching you dance around the issue. You misspoke. Ron Paul is not for equality. Whether or not the other candidates are equal, better than, or worse than Paul is besides the point. Ron Paul is not for equality under the law. Kucinich and Obama are - they would give equal rights, which is what the law is supposed to provide.

You have lost this fight. Accept it and move on already.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:19 PM   #422
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Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26


It's like talking to a brick wall, honestly.

I could have said the same about you.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:21 PM   #423
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I could have said the same about you.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:23 PM   #424
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All those posts where you kept insisting that Paul and Clinton's stance is the same as everyone else's, and then I having to continuously explain that it is not the same...yea like talking to a brick wall.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:24 PM   #425
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I never insisted that Paul and Clinton's stances are the same as everyone else's, though!

I just said that the differences are minor!

You're the one who refused to read my posts!
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:28 PM   #426
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen
no it would not be immoral. Whether or not they have the title, they would have all the same rights that a married couple would have.

I have to admit it's getting pretty tiresome watching you dance around the issue. You misspoke. Ron Paul is not for equality. Whether or not the other candidates are equal, better than, or worse than Paul is besides the point. Ron Paul is not for equality under the law. Kucinich and Obama are - they would give equal rights, which is what the law is supposed to provide.

You have lost this fight. Accept it and move on already.
Lost what fight? I don't think you've noticed, but i've never insisted that Ron Paul is for total equality of gays and straights. And the times i've said he was for equal rights, it has been in response to comments about race. But now since you mentioned it, I will say that all the candidates (except Kucinich) are for equality of all, not including gays.

And while Obama's position is progress, you can't say that they would have equal rights, since they would not have the right to call themselves "married" like everyone else would. If we took away the rights of all African Americans to call themselves "married," they sure as hell would be upset, call it immoral, and call it unequal.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:29 PM   #427
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Quote:
Originally posted by Infinitum98


All those posts where you kept insisting that Paul and Clinton's stance is the same as everyone else's, and then I having to continuously explain that it is not the same...yea like talking to a brick wall.


Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
Romney has an absolutely worse position
Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
It IS more conservative than Paul's or Clinton's. I addressed this a while ago.
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Originally posted by phillyfan26
I have said over and over and over that YES, he's "more liberal" on the issue than some of the other Republicans.
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Originally posted by phillyfan26
It's not exactly the same.
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Originally posted by phillyfan26
Yes. I'll even write it clearly: Ron Paul does not have the same views as the rest of the Republicans.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:29 PM   #428
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Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
I never insisted that Paul and Clinton's stances are the same as everyone else's, though!

I just said that the differences are minor!

You're the one who refused to read my posts!
Did you not look at your chart? It implied everyone except Obama and Kucinich are the same in their position.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:31 PM   #429
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My chart stated that everyone but Obama and Kucinich fail to guarantee equal rights for everyone.

I cannot have made this any clearer if I tried.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:35 PM   #430
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Quote:
Originally posted by Infinitum98
I will say that all the candidates... are for equality of all, not including gays.
This statement makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

You seriously need to get off this compulsion to talk about Ron Paul's pro-equality stance.

Once again, I will repeat. You are either for equality for all, or you're not. You can't be for equality, except the gays. If that's your stance, then you are not for equality!
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:40 PM   #431
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Quote:
NAACP President: Ron Paul Is Not A Racist

Linder says Paul being smeared because he is a threat to the establishment

Paul Joseph Watson

Sunday, January 13, 2008


Austin NAACP President Nelson Linder, who has known Ron Paul for 20 years, unequivocally dismissed charges that the Congressman was a racist in light of recent smear attempts, and said the reason for him being attacked was that he was a threat to the establishment.

Linder joined Alex Jones for two segments on his KLBJ Sunday show this evening, during which he commented on the controversy created by media hit pieces that attempted to tarnish Paul as a racist by making him culpable for decades old newsletter articles written by other people.

"Knowing Ron Paul's intent, I think he is trying to improve this country but I think also, when you talk about the Constitution and you constantly criticize the federal government versus state I think a lot of folks are going to misconstrue that....so I think it's very easy for folks who want to to take his position out of context and that's what I'm hearing," said Linder. "Knowing Ron Paul and having talked to him, I think he's a very fair guy I just think that a lot of folks do not understand the Libertarian platform," he added.

Asked directly if Ron Paul was a racist, Linder responded "No I don't," adding that he had heard Ron Paul speak out about police repression of black communities and mandatory minimum sentences on many occasions.

Dr. Paul has also publicly praised Martin Luther King as his hero on many occasions spanning back 20 years.

"I've read Ron Paul's whole philosophy, I also understand what he's saying from a political standpoint and why people are attacking him," said Linder.

"If you scare the folks that have the money, they're going to attack you and they're going to take it out of context," he added.

"What he's saying is really really threatening the powers that be and that's what they fear," concluded the NAACP President.
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Old 01-15-2008, 12:01 AM   #432
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen
no it would not be immoral. Whether or not they have the title, they would have all the same rights that a married couple would have.
Except the right to claim the *legal status* "married," which for many opponents of gay marriage would appear to be what their opposition most boils down to. Promoting civil unions as an alternative is a concession to those folks, no matter how you slice it.

I do think this phase of the thread has passed its sell-by date, though...might be best to call it a day for now.
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Old 01-15-2008, 12:52 AM   #433
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Except the right to claim the *legal status* "married," which for many opponents of gay marriage would appear to be what their opposition most boils down to. Promoting civil unions as an alternative is a concession to those folks, no matter how you slice it.
Exactly, that is what i've been trying to say.

Quote:
I do think this phase of the thread has passed its sell-by date, though...might be best to call it a day for now.
I agree.
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Old 01-15-2008, 12:56 AM   #434
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Quote:
Originally posted by CherokeeRose
Austin NAACP Defends Ron Paul
http://www.usadaily.com/article.cfm?articleID=227844

NAACP President: Ron Paul Is Not A Racist
Linder says Paul being smeared because he is a threat to the establishment

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Sunday, January 13, 2008

Austin NAACP President Nelson Linder, who has known Ron Paul for 20 years, unequivocally dismissed charges that the Congressman was a racist in light of recent smear attempts, and said the reason for him being attacked was that he was a threat to the establishment.

Linder joined Alex Jones for two segments on his KLBJ Sunday show this evening, during which he commented on the controversy created by media hit pieces that attempted to tarnish Paul as a racist by making him culpable for decades old newsletter articles written by other people.

"Knowing Ron Paul's intent, I think he is trying to improve this country but I think also, when you talk about the Constitution and you constantly criticize the federal government versus state I think a lot of folks are going to misconstrue that....so I think it's very easy for folks who want to to take his position out of context and that's what I'm hearing," said Linder.

"Knowing Ron Paul and having talked to him, I think he's a very fair guy I just think that a lot of folks do not understand the Libertarian platform," he added.

Asked directly if Ron Paul was a racist, Linder responded "No I don't," adding that he had heard Ron Paul speak out about police repression of black communities and mandatory minimum sentences on many occasions.

Dr. Paul has also publicly praised Martin Luther King as his hero on many occasions spanning back 20 years.

"I've read Ron Paul's whole philosophy, I also understand what he's saying from a political standpoint and why people are attacking him," said Linder.

"If you scare the folks that have the money, they're going to attack you and they're going to take it out of context," he added.

"What he's saying is really really threatening the powers that be and that's what they fear," concluded the NAACP President.
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Old 01-16-2008, 05:42 AM   #435
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I am surprised that he doesn't have more support here
Quote:
The War on Religion

by Rep. Ron Paul, MD
As we celebrate another Yuletide season, it’s hard not to notice that Christmas in America simply doesn’t feel the same anymore. Although an overwhelming majority of Americans celebrate Christmas, and those who don’t celebrate it overwhelmingly accept and respect our nation’s Christmas traditions, a certain shared public sentiment slowly has disappeared. The Christmas spirit, marked by a wonderful feeling of goodwill among men, is in danger of being lost in the ongoing war against religion.

Through perverse court decisions and years of cultural indoctrination, the elitist, secular Left has managed to convince many in our nation that religion must be driven from public view. The justification is always that someone, somewhere, might possibly be offended or feel uncomfortable living in the midst of a largely Christian society, so all must yield to the fragile sensibilities of the few. The ultimate goal of the anti-religious elites is to transform America into a completely secular nation, a nation that is legally and culturally biased against Christianity.

This growing bias explains why many of our wonderful Christmas traditions have been lost. Christmas pageants and plays, including Handel’s Messiah, have been banned from schools and community halls. Nativity scenes have been ordered removed from town squares, and even criticized as offensive when placed on private church lawns. Office Christmas parties have become taboo, replaced by colorless seasonal parties to ensure no employees feel threatened by a “hostile environment.” Even wholly non-religious decorations featuring Santa Claus, snowmen, and the like have been called into question as Christmas symbols that might cause discomfort. Earlier this month, firemen near Chicago reluctantly removed Christmas decorations from their firehouse after a complaint by some embittered busybody. Most noticeably, however, the once commonplace refrain of “Merry Christmas” has been replaced by the vague, ubiquitous “Happy Holidays.” But what holiday? Is Christmas some kind of secret, a word that cannot be uttered in public? Why have we allowed the secularists to intimidate us into downplaying our most cherished and meaningful Christian celebration?

The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders’ political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs. Certainly the drafters of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, both replete with references to God, would be aghast at the federal government’s hostility to religion. The establishment clause of the First Amendment was simply intended to forbid the creation of an official state church like the Church of England, not to drive religion out of public life.

The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance. Throughout our nation’s history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people’s allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation’s Christian heritage. Christmas itself may soon be a casualty of that war.


December 30, 2003
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul148.html
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