phillyfan26
Blue Crack Supplier
- Joined
- May 7, 2006
- Messages
- 30,343
Infinitum98 said:1. I agree.
2. I just wanted to make it clear that he isn't the only one.
OK ... ?
So what's your defense of Ron Paul here?
Infinitum98 said:1. I agree.
2. I just wanted to make it clear that he isn't the only one.
Diemen said:Obama comes pretty close.
How about responding to the rest of that post?
Infinitum98 said:
I know no one has been saying that, but the job of the President is to put all people equal under the law, so obviously them not giving marriage rights to gays is unequal.
Infinitum98 said:
I know no one has been saying that, but the job of the President is to put all people equal under the law, so obviously them not giving marriage rights to gays is unequal.
Infinitum98 said:And he wants to leave it to the states, not federally ban it.
martha said:
To paraphrase the American Prospect, the rights of a state are more important than the rights of a woman.
phillyfan26 said:
OK ... ?
So what's your defense of Ron Paul here?
phillyfan26 said:
So, Ron Paul wouldn't be doing the (your words) job of the President, would he?
Diemen said:
Right. So now that you've acknowledged that, wouldn't that make your previous statements (RP is for equality for all) lies?
phillyfan26 said:Obama is.
phillyfan26 said:No, he said the title is left up to states. Which is acceptable. Whereas Paul's plan ... uh ... ISN'T acceptable.
Let me explain it to you in a chart:
nathan1977 said:Like the rights of a state to enforce not murdering people?
phillyfan26 said:It's not full equality. I never said it was. But look at where we are right now. Which plan is a significant step? Which isn't? Which gives rights? Which doesn't?
It is just a title, and I don't understand why he doesn't give it to them. But the candidate who gives the rights is making progress. The candidate who leaves it up to states isn't. End of story.
martha said:
I don't support the death penalty, so I'm not sure what your point is.
Infinitum98 said:I wasn't attacking Obama's position. I was merely saying that he is not for perfect equal rights. But, good we got it straightened out.
And for anyone else who comes upon this thread, i'll detail the chart a little more, because it is unfair to put Ron Paul and Hillary Clinton on the same level with everyone else.
phillyfan26 said:
No, it's very fair to put them on the same level. They don't guarantee the civil rights.
Infinitum98 said:No it isn't fair. Ron Paul and Hillary Clinton want to give the states the rights to choose whether gay marriage should be allowed or not, whereas someone like Mitt Romney wants to use the power of the Federal government to ban anyone in any state to get married, even if the state approves of gay marriage.
It is like with any other law. You can't say that a President who wants a federal ban on gambling is the same as a President who wants the state to decide for themselves their own gambling laws. Someone who is pro-gambling will obviously choose the second President, who is willing to let the states decide their own rights.
Ron Paul and Hillary Clinton's positions on gay marriage are certainly more liberal than the positions of McCain, Romney, Giuliani, Huckabee, Thompson.
phillyfan26 said:
You just compared a civil rights issue to gambling laws.
I'm done with you.
You're off the deep end.
phillyfan26 said:I'm not dodging at all.
Your comparison is absurd, because the issue doesn't have merits on both sides.
Your reasoning is ridiculous. You're saying that Ron Paul and Hillary Clinton are better on the issue than Mitt Romney is.
So what?
Neither of them are at acceptable levels. Neither of them hold liberal positions. Being more liberal than the most extreme conservative position doesn't make your position liberal.
Romney has an absolutely worse position, but all the positions you mentioned can be grouped into one: unacceptably wrong positions. And that's what I did in that chart.
Infinitum98 said:I didn't say they are at acceptable levels. For some people they are on acceptable levels, for others not.
But since you said before that it is okay to group all of them together with the other Republicans and I was arguing against that.
And I know that being more liberal doesn't make it liberal. It is not even the point whether their position is liberal or not. You said it, it is about being MORE liberal. You said earlier that Romney, Paul and Clinton are on the same level since all their positions are "unacceptable." But they are not on the same level, they are more liberal, less conservative, you can say it either way.